President Trump

FogBlueInSanFran said:
On the contrary — it feeds his narrative that everyone is against America, that we’re the real victims, and therefore we should stop supporting other nations and focus on America First.
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The rest of the world can pontificate. Whilst MSNBC has a fit. Looking on the outside at a comment of someone there this would not surprise me.

European arrogance won't help the situation.
 
ChicagoBlue said:
It doesn’t really screw who you want to screw though, does it?
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I don’t think it should come to screwing America, that’s not what this is about. Europe needs to be responsible for its own affairs and security, that much is obvious. We need to detach ourselves from this endless drama with the US. It’s gotten old and boring pretty fast second time around and I get the impression that European leaders are at this point given how quick they are to call Trump out.

In some ways a divorce is not a surprise. Europe culturally has little in common with the US - extreme religious views, gun culture, workplace culture, health care attitudes - it’s a different world. Nothing wrong with that, but it makes a partnership untenable when there is no common ground on defence or trade or world outlook or pretty much anything tbh.

Nothing lasts forever.
 
The more I see the video the more I see his wilful ignorance of other countries and their cultures.

Ukrainians are hard headed, blunt motherfuckers who aren't afraid to stand up for themselves. This can get lost in translation occasionally as westerners who take offence by the tone of their voice when speaking to us.

They don't fuck about. Don't use flowery language. They are to the point. To me that's one hell of strength I wish I had.
 
Amazing how this is the same nonsense Farage pulled off with Brexit.

"X amount of pounds are going to the EU and we're getting nothing in return"

And people bought it and Brexit happened

Trump followed the same playbook. "X dollars are going to Ukraine and we're getting nothing in return"

And people voted for it. They're dumb enough to think that the average American is going to benefit from the money we're "saving."
 
SkyBlueAmerican said:
Amazing how this is the same nonsense Farage pulled off with Brexit.

"X amount of pounds are going to the EU and we're getting nothing in return"

And people bought it and Brexit happened

Trump followed the same playbook. "X dollars are going to Ukraine and we're getting nothing in return"

And people voted for it. They're dumb enough to think that the average American is going to benefit from the money we're "saving."
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Education has receded and simplistic solutions to complex problems appeal to the people with limited critical thought.

When that’s added to the flood of social media posts from people who confirm prejudices, it’s why we are where we are.
 
Blue and true said:
I get your concern, but as others have suggested, Vance will die a political death as soon the orange tyrant dies. If they try and tear up the constitution for a third term, then I truly believe you'd be on the cusp of civil war; which is when you'd imagine some intervention would happen.

The biggest fear I'd have is Musk. He's controlling things behind the scenes, and we're talking about someone more sinister than Trump and Vance.
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With respect, I disagree on all points.

MAGA is a belief system. It goes way beyond Trump. Vance - or someone else - will take up the MAGA mantle when the Orange One is no longer able.

Even if the constitution is trampled and somehow Trump gets a third term - even then - I can't foresee a civil war. I can see widespread protests violently suppressed by the government.

Musk isn't running the government, Trump is. It's strange to me that Musk is still around. Invariably though he'll upset Trump and then he's out.
 
I have been thinking about this for a few hours now.

Bear with me.

1) This was an ambush designed to humiliate and minimize Zelenskyy.

2) They have now created a narrative of Zelenskyy and Senator Graham has said he needs to resign.

3) Putin will get Ukrainian land (win), Trump will get billions in “raw earth” minerals (win), and Zelenskyy will end up out of a job in the near future (Putin & Trump win, European and Democracy will lose).

4) Ukraine will end up with a Putin puppet as President.

5) Putin gets Ukraine, for all intents and purposes, without losing another soldier or tank.

6) Trump will get paid.

The end game here is the same as the “yesterday” game, as we saw with the numerous iterations of Ukrainian leadership prior to Zelenskyy and the invasion, which is that Putin gets to CONTROL Ukraine (much as he does Belarus) without the war.

Disgusting that Trump has become Putin’s bitch and an agent of the Russian state and is trying to deliver Ukraine to him.

Trump has hated Zelenskyy since he felt like he helped not get Trump elected in 2020 and was a Biden lover. Trump is not going to stop until Zelenskyy is out of power, and Graham just started that narrative ball rolling…
 
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As most people have suggested, it was a set up. There were two possible outcomes which would have ended with the same result.

One would have been Zelenskyy caving in and signing the deal which would have handed over mineral rights with no security guarantees, a deal which would have fallen apart almost immediately with no changes to Russia’s belligerence and ultimately victory for Putin with Ukraine’s wealth shared by Russia and the US.

The second was what happened. Zelenskyy refused to cave in and Shitgibbon and Vance would start the bullshit that he’s ungrateful and doesn’t want peace followed by a withdrawal of support leaving a clear run for Russia and a pay off by Putin.

The problem now for Trump is that they overplayed it and made himself and Vance look like a pair of gangsters trying to strongman a weaker gang to kowtow to them leaving Ukraine’s European allies little choice but to double down on their support for Ukraine. Even some Trump appeasing posters on here are now being openly critical of the orange ****. If that’s happening here I can only imagine it’s eroding his support at home now it’s even clearer he’s up Putin’s arse.

Dangerous times ahead.
 
BlueMoonAcrossThePond said:
MAGA is a belief system. It goes way beyond Trump. Vance - or someone else - will take up the MAGA mantle when the Orange One is no longer able.
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While you're right that there are plenty of MAGA policy talking points that go beyond Trump himself, a HUGE part of that movement is dedicated to, and depends on, propping up Trump's little cult of personality.

MAGA feels like a movement that will lose a fair amount of steam once Trump either goes senile or croaks. It won't just burst like a bubble overnight, but I haven't seen a "true believer" MAGA politician that looks like they can take up the mantle of the movement and keep it going with the same gusto.
 
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