Russian invasion of Ukraine

meeesh said:
Yea coz they dump them on our shores that’s why France doesn’t have as much a population as ours
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Also meesh

meeesh said:
Talk about going off track, but crack on if it makes you happy - I’m more concerned with what Micah Richards has come out with more than your stats at the minute
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Is this some performance art attempt to demonstrate what being even less consistent than Trump looks like?
 
mosssideblue said:
Pre 2014 or 2022 borders?
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They have not and never have backed down from 2014.
My cousin has fought in Donbass since 2015.
They have held their own with no help,and will continue to do so if need be.
Hope they get all the help they can though.
Zelensky has set his stall....2014!!!

Slava Ukraini.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Mensa Saskatchewan has posted this:

In the Constitution of Mensa, it says that Mensa is not allowed to take any political action and cannot hold political affiliations (though Members or groups of members may express opinions as members of Mensa, provided their opinions or actions are not expressed as being those of Mensa as an organization). So while I do have personal opinions on what happened between Trump, Vance, and Zelensky (Володимир Зеленський) during the session with the press at the White House today, I am keeping those to myself. I wanted to provide some fact checking on the numbers being thrown around though, as these numbers are not politics but verifiable numbers.

The USA has not spent $350 billion in Ukraine, nor even $300 billion. I have seen figures ranging anywhere from $119.7 billion (Kiel Institute for the World Economy) to $182.8 billion (U.S. Department of Defense), but the most consistent figure that I have seen is around $175 billion, and only $105.1 billion of that is to the Ukrainian government directly:
- $2 billion in humanitarian aid
- $33.3 billion in budget support
- $69.8 billion in weapons, equipment, and other military support
(Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News, Euronews, US Special Inspector General for Operation Atlantic Resolve)

Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region (the $182.8 billion figure includes US military training and replenishing US defence stocks, so it includes all spending on the response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine). (Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News)

Of the $182.8 billion from the USA, only $83.4 billion has been sent, with the remaining $99.4 billion either not yet committed or not yet approved for payment. This is why Ukraine has received only $76 billion from the USA, and the $100 billion that people claim is missing is actually money that has not been sent. (Euronews, Українська правда)

By comparison, the Kiel Institute calculates that, including military, financial, and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, the EU has spent $138.7 billion (compared to their calculation of $119.7 billion from the USA). Their calculations include only support directly given to Ukraine and exclude things like money used to replenish U.S. weapon stocks following donations to Kyiv, funds spent to help neighbouring countries welcome Ukrainian refugees, etc. However, using a broader definition, the European Union has committed $198 billion so far. (BBC News, Washington Post, Fox News)

Of all the funding Ukraine as received, NATO estimates that nearly 60% of the funding for Ukraine has come from across Europe and Canada. (ABC News and BBC News)

Canada has given $19.7 billion in aid to Ukraine:
- $12.4 billion in financial aid
- $4.5 billion in military assistance

The remaining funds are spread between humanitarian, development, stabilization, etc. aid funding. (THX News and Government of Canada)
Canada has also provided $5 billion to Ukraine from seized Russian assets, and the money will be repaid from interest earned on the held Russian assets (i.e., Russia will be bearing the burden of repayment). (Global News, National Post, CTV News, and Anadolu Agency)

In total, Ukraine has spent $120 billion of its own money, and Ukraine estimates that that total they have spent on the war is about $320 billion. (Voice of America)

If you're wondering, 35% of the funds going to Ukraine from Europe have been loans, and some of the repayment of those loans are coming from revenues from frozen and seized Russian assets and Ukraine isn't having to pay those portions of the loans, and the rest are really generous terms where Ukraine will be repaying less interest over lengthy repayment periods. The remaining 65% is grants an in-kind support. (Washington Post and BBC News)

***ETA: The actual value of the weapons and equipment sent to Ukraine by the USA is about 60% lower than they were priced because the price was for new stock. Much of the military equipment and ammunition sent to Ukraine is old and of limited combat effectiveness because it came from aging US stockpiles, some of the ammunition is expired, and a majority of the equipment isn't even used by the US military anymore (and therefore has an effective value of $0 to the USA). Normally, this stock would have to be disposed of, but giving it to Ukraine means there are effectively no disposal expenses. Furthermore, much of the funding for Ukraine is being spent in the USA, such as employing US workers to manufacture the replacement equipment and supplies for refilling US stockpiles. (Kyiv Post and AL24news - قناة الجزائر الدولية)

***ETA2: I am unable to share the links to the articles that I am using as sources, as there is an ongoing dispute between the Government of Canada and Facebook that prevents Canadian Facebook users from being able to share or even see news articles from any news agency. Someone shared with me a way to post the links, so I will try to do that later today.
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So you reckon there were a few fibs told in that staged pike on. ?
 
Not my words.......

Ukraine didn’t invade anyone. Ukraine didn’t commit genocide. Ukraine didn’t mass-execute civilians, deport children, or bomb entire cities into dust. Russia did. Yet the same voices who excuse every Russian war crime are the ones desperately trying to paint Zelensky—a man leading his nation’s fight for survival—as a “war criminal.”

Why? Because propaganda doesn’t need truth—it just needs repetition. Call the victim the villain enough times, and weak minds will believe it. This isn’t about facts. It’s about creating moral parity where none exists, making the invader and the invaded seem equally guilty. That way, those too cowardly to take a stand can justify doing nothing.

Slava Ukraini.
 
meeesh said:
Ok I see, but nothing to add in regards my other questions about Starmer being the cheer leader or is it just as it was on home soil so to speak?
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The host PM is always front and centre.

Britain is the 3rd largest contributing country behind the US and Germany, we have every right to host an event trying to get further aid for Ukraine.
 
MeatnSpudsMCFC said:
Already masses of Americans on social media are going batty over Starmer and his troops on the ground remark.

What I don't understand is that we already have them in Estonia so I don't see what the difference is.
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meeesh said:
Here’s a serious question or two that maybe someone could answer in simplistic terms unless I’m over thinking things a little

Why has this happened (this meeting) in our country of all places today? Was this something that was planned so it’s just a coincidence that Zelensky was on his way back over from that debacle in America Friday?

I mean (and I say this tongue in cheek ish) I thought we weren’t involved in Europe (as such) no more, so I’m saying why is it Starmer being chief negotiator than say France or Germany , as they are far bigger countries than us - why does it have to be the UK inviting everyone to the party type of thing?

I’m being genuine as well here, because starmer will lick Trumps arse all day no?
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There had to be a Brexit advantage, we can act independently of the EU without having to run it by all the other countries. France and the UK have Nuclear weapons third we can roll out the King to put an extra stamp on it.
Fourth we have a special relationship with the US “don’t laugh” your guess is as good as mine.
 
Stuff 02/03:
www.dailykos.com

Russian stuff blowing up: Ukraine enters the center of Toretsk

Good news from the city of Toretsk, which had a pre-war population of about 30k before it was razed by Russia. Russian troops are stuck out in a long salient northwest of the city. They’ll have to withdraw quickly (if they are able) or be cut off....
www.dailykos.com
 
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