Russian invasion of Ukraine

west didsblue said:
Agreed.

A free and fair election in Russia would solve everything.
Click to expand...
How can that happen when any opposition either falls out of windows or catch mysterious viruses whilst being held in prison on trumped up charges. Who will/can stand against Putin?
 
Cheer Up Peter Reid said:
The most telling comment for me was when Vance said to Zelensky, you came over here and campaigned for the opposition (or words to that effect). I don't know whether that actually happened or not, but it proves to me that they hold a personal grudge against him.
Click to expand...
It didn't happen. Another lie from Tango man's assistant bully.
 
MillionMilesAway said:
Mensa Saskatchewan has posted this:

In the Constitution of Mensa, it says that Mensa is not allowed to take any political action and cannot hold political affiliations (though Members or groups of members may express opinions as members of Mensa, provided their opinions or actions are not expressed as being those of Mensa as an organization). So while I do have personal opinions on what happened between Trump, Vance, and Zelensky (Володимир Зеленський) during the session with the press at the White House today, I am keeping those to myself. I wanted to provide some fact checking on the numbers being thrown around though, as these numbers are not politics but verifiable numbers.

The USA has not spent $350 billion in Ukraine, nor even $300 billion. I have seen figures ranging anywhere from $119.7 billion (Kiel Institute for the World Economy) to $182.8 billion (U.S. Department of Defense), but the most consistent figure that I have seen is around $175 billion, and only $105.1 billion of that is to the Ukrainian government directly:
- $2 billion in humanitarian aid
- $33.3 billion in budget support
- $69.8 billion in weapons, equipment, and other military support
(Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News, Euronews, US Special Inspector General for Operation Atlantic Resolve)

Most of the remainder is funding various U.S. activities associated with the war in Ukraine, and a small portion supports other affected countries in the region (the $182.8 billion figure includes US military training and replenishing US defence stocks, so it includes all spending on the response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine). (Council on Foreign Relations, BBC News)

Of the $182.8 billion from the USA, only $83.4 billion has been sent, with the remaining $99.4 billion either not yet committed or not yet approved for payment. This is why Ukraine has received only $76 billion from the USA, and the $100 billion that people claim is missing is actually money that has not been sent. (Euronews, Українська правда)

By comparison, the Kiel Institute calculates that, including military, financial, and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, the EU has spent $138.7 billion (compared to their calculation of $119.7 billion from the USA). Their calculations include only support directly given to Ukraine and exclude things like money used to replenish U.S. weapon stocks following donations to Kyiv, funds spent to help neighbouring countries welcome Ukrainian refugees, etc. However, using a broader definition, the European Union has committed $198 billion so far. (BBC News, Washington Post, Fox News)

Of all the funding Ukraine as received, NATO estimates that nearly 60% of the funding for Ukraine has come from across Europe and Canada. (ABC News and BBC News)

Canada has given $19.7 billion in aid to Ukraine:
- $12.4 billion in financial aid
- $4.5 billion in military assistance

The remaining funds are spread between humanitarian, development, stabilization, etc. aid funding. (THX News and Government of Canada)
Canada has also provided $5 billion to Ukraine from seized Russian assets, and the money will be repaid from interest earned on the held Russian assets (i.e., Russia will be bearing the burden of repayment). (Global News, National Post, CTV News, and Anadolu Agency)

In total, Ukraine has spent $120 billion of its own money, and Ukraine estimates that that total they have spent on the war is about $320 billion. (Voice of America)

If you're wondering, 35% of the funds going to Ukraine from Europe have been loans, and some of the repayment of those loans are coming from revenues from frozen and seized Russian assets and Ukraine isn't having to pay those portions of the loans, and the rest are really generous terms where Ukraine will be repaying less interest over lengthy repayment periods. The remaining 65% is grants an in-kind support. (Washington Post and BBC News)

***ETA: The actual value of the weapons and equipment sent to Ukraine by the USA is about 60% lower than they were priced because the price was for new stock. Much of the military equipment and ammunition sent to Ukraine is old and of limited combat effectiveness because it came from aging US stockpiles, some of the ammunition is expired, and a majority of the equipment isn't even used by the US military anymore (and therefore has an effective value of $0 to the USA). Normally, this stock would have to be disposed of, but giving it to Ukraine means there are effectively no disposal expenses. Furthermore, much of the funding for Ukraine is being spent in the USA, such as employing US workers to manufacture the replacement equipment and supplies for refilling US stockpiles. (Kyiv Post and AL24news - قناة الجزائر الدولية)

***ETA2: I am unable to share the links to the articles that I am using as sources, as there is an ongoing dispute between the Government of Canada and Facebook that prevents Canadian Facebook users from being able to share or even see news articles from any news agency. Someone shared with me a way to post the links, so I will try to do that later today.
Click to expand...
Great post.
 
meeesh said:
And your input on the thread has done nothing but insult every poster who has said something that doesn't suit your thoughts, I've looked, you have added fairly little, apart from that

So talking about faintest clues, try to post something on the thread that can at least make you sound that you know what you are talking about then.
Click to expand...
What’s the question as it’s got lost in all the noise?
 
For all the 'we can't afford it types', particularly in the US. Their military donation to Ukraine equates to about what, 5% of their total military expenditure per year? Could there honestly be a better 5% investment per year? All without losing a single member of their armed forces.
 
meeesh said:
And your input on the thread has done nothing but insult every poster who has said something that doesn't suit your thoughts, I've looked, you have added fairly little, apart from that

So talking about faintest clues, try to post something on the thread that can at least make you sound that you know what you are talking about then.
Click to expand...
I’m fairly certain that I gave you a synopsis yesterday but maybe you didn’t see it.

What is your overarching message, what is it that you want to convey?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
What’s the question as it’s got lost in all the noise?
Click to expand...

I asked a couple of genuine questions mate yesterday that's all, but as you quite rightly mention, the noise has made it irrelevant now.

Unfortunately, and I should have known better, it's pointless now, as I didn't get anything of relevance back, which is weird considering how many have had an input on this thread.

But I did learn that the UK is in Europe, funny that, as I'm 54 in a couple of week and never knew that, oh and I have tourettes as well apparently.

I won't say nothing more on this thread, but just peruse it for a few giggles as experts fall over themselves talking shit, but throwing an odd stat in here and there, funny innit how stats come into play when they in fact don't paint the whole picture.
 
Slipper One said:
You are Sergey Lavrov and I claim my £5....$9....€5.75....₽557!!

You mean an election where by a Putin puppet government is put into place?

There's one thing about you, you're full of good ideas.


In case you didn't watch the meeting the other day, the Ukrainians were around the table, but were booted out.
Perhaps you meant to say, it's Trump that needs to get back around the table, but to be honest, I don't see any value in that.
Click to expand...
I mean an election in Ukraine! The Russians don’t have elections. I’m being called naive on hear. Anyway I do think this is all set up, the whole thing. Timings too convient. Trump will get his way, NATO will step up, it will cost us more and Ukraine and Russia will be falling out for years to come. Russia won’t allow foreign troops on the ground and it will go on for years.
 
Slipper One said:
I had two aunts the same, engaged but lost both to the war. Never married.

War is terrible, but are you typing this from Ukraine, because I believe they have a different view.
Click to expand...
Sorry about your 2 aunts. I’m very lucky to have been born in a free liberal democracy, which I am keen to keep that way, but it seems to be changing at the moment. I’m sorry for the situation in Ukraine it must be horrid.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I’m fairly certain that I gave you a synopsis yesterday but maybe you didn’t see it.

What is your overarching message, what is it that you want to convey?
Click to expand...

No, my bad, to be fair you did explain a few things that you see and put some points across, wasn't backed up with anyone else echoing you mind.

If a few had said similar then I might believe and see where this is going, but it was mainly you (and your take on it) that came back my way.

I thank you for doing that all the same though.
 
meeesh said:
I asked a couple of genuine questions mate yesterday that's all, but as you quite rightly mention, the noise has made it irrelevant now.

Unfortunately, and I should have known better, it's pointless now, as I didn't get anything of relevance back, which is weird considering how many have had an input on this thread.

But I did learn that the UK is in Europe, funny that, as I'm 54 in a couple of week and never knew that, oh and I have tourettes as well apparently.

I won't say nothing more on this thread, but just peruse it for a few giggles as experts fall over themselves talking shit, but throwing an odd stat in here and there, funny innit how stats come into play when they in fact don't paint the whole picture.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. It’s an emotive subject for many and there is undoubtedly a prevailing narrative from the regular contributors on this thread (myself included) which can sometimes shout down any voices that deviate from that.

I think there are a couple of overarching reasons that those posters (myself included) feel so strongly about this. The first is that over many years Russia has been adept at sowing misinformation into the west, and among many that misinformation has become established fact. And anything that may resemble that line is going to be attacked, sometimes in a way that isn’t always right or fair on that poster.

The other factor, putting it in very straightforward terms, is to that cohort, of which I am one, this is considered to be a fight of good against evil. To many of us, it really is a profound as that. What we are dealing with here, in Russia, or rather its state, is the embodiment of pure evil. This is evidenced by the way it treats its neighbours and its own. If people believe this to be the case, then they will naturally respond stridently to any suggestion that it might not be, which sort of feeds into point one.
 
Last edited:
US ADMINISTRATION LIKELY TO END MILITARY AID
Having tied itself in knots that Zelensky ‘disrespected’ the United States and ‘doesn’t want peace’, because that’s the line 47 wants to hear- despite most of America rejecting the argument categorically, an important meeting will take place today to determine if aid will continue.
On the list of options is complete permanent cessation, ending future aid beyond that already authorised by Congress and announced by the Biden administration, or stopping everything immediately authorised or not.
This of course is where Vance especially wants to be and all just as Ukraine is making inroads again a Russian advances and regaining control of important territory.
Russia meanwhile is ecstatic at what it sees as US alignment with its views.
It’s an unprecedented situation - but it won’t last forever because Americans are already outraged by it. It will come back to haunt the GOP eventually.

The Analyst
Slava Ukraine !
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Fair enough. It’s an emotive subject for many and there is undoubtedly a prevailing narrative from the regular contributors on this thread (myself included) which can sometimes shout down any voices that deviate from that.

I think there are a couple of overarching reasons that those posters (myself included) feel so strongly about this. The first is that over many years Russia has been adept at sowing misinformation into the west, and among many that misinformation has become established fact. And anything that may resemble that line is goi g to be attacked, sometimes in a way that isn’t always right or fair on that poster.

The other factor, putting it in very straightforward terms, is to that cohort, of which I am one, consider this to be a fight of good against evil. To many of us, it really is a profound as that. What we are dealing with here, in Russia, or rather it’s state, is the embodiment of pure evil. This is evidenced by the way it treats its neighbours and its own. If people believe this to be the case, then they will naturally respond stridently to any suggestion that it might not be, which sort of feeds into point one.
Click to expand...

I get it, but as not totally clued up on the subject, I was mainly looking for a bit more insight, but as per too many were just putting their own thoughts and spin on it, without answering the questions, I do think many thought I was taking the piss, which I wasn't at all.

Ever since being young, Russia, and Iran have always scared the shit out of me, when there are probably more things to worry about a lot closer to home, but all the " we are living in uncertain times" that gets tossed about on the news on a daily basis does not sit well at times, so the last thing I want to be reading is those on here just spinning their own narratives when they actually know nothing.

But as I said, being on here as long as I have I should have known better, as it has now gone to him saying I'm chatting bollocks, and someone (who I've never interacted with anyway), has put me on ignore now......I won't sleep tonight knowing that now
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top