Andy Burnham | Manchester Mayor

‘A tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme’​


The Blackley and Middleton South MP (and United fan) writes on Ratcliffe and Co’s proposals for the stadium and surrounding area -

Labour’s Andy Burnham claims to be confident of financial support from Labour’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rachel Reeves, for the so-called “New Trafford”. This is the proposal to replace Manchester United’s 115 years old ground with a new state of the art, £2 billion stadium on the land of an adjacent rail freight hub.

No Manchester United fan or Labour politician should support these plans. I am both, and believe the proposals are an ill-thought-out concept and wrong in principle.

Where the real problem rests.

United’s problem is not the stadium, which has the largest capacity of any club stadium in the country, it is United’s failure to win sufficient games in the stadium. This is partly the consequence of the loss of focus on the key United product, football, and the poor recruitment of players. Commercial deals are vital, but they have become more important than the football.

According to the Financial Times, Manchester United’s marquee signings lose more value and faster than any other European football club. They are also less productive playing for a smaller percentage of time than other clubs’ major signings. Angel Di Maria, who United bought for £59.7 million in 2014, a British club record at the time, only played for 8% of the available time.

A new stadium will not improve the team, in fact history shows many teams moving into new grounds have a dip in form. This point was put to me succinctly while standing on the terraces at Hillsborough in the 1960s. This ground was considered one of the best in the country at the time, having invested in a large modern cantilever stand. It was regularly chosen for FA Cup semi-finals. A typically dour Yorkshireman seeing his side trailing to United, said “I’m still waiting for the bloody new cantilever stand to score a goal.”

Am I the only person to think there is a distinctly fishy smell when the part owner of United predicts imminent bankruptcy while simultaneously launching an ill-defined scheme costing £2 billion.

What don’t we know?

Some supporters suspect that New Trafford will not be owned by United but leased back from new owners (the current ground is 100% owned by United). Selling the naming rights for the stadium would be extremely lucrative as would building housing on the site of the current stadium and its environs.

Before embarking on a regeneration project, it is usual for viability and impact studies to be undertaken, not in this case. The proposals are as transparent as a block of lead and raise many questions. Inevitably the rail freight terminal would have to be moved to St Helens. Are we really in the business of moving jobs to Merseyside? I think not.

It is also rumoured that the new stadium would be prefabricated abroad and sailed up the Ship Canal and assembled. Few Manchester jobs would be created.

Unsubstantiated Claims


Unsubstantiated claims are that moving the freight would ease congestion at Manchester Piccadilly, but alternatives for potentially £300 million of public subsidy are not being considered. Maybe investment in digital signalling or investment in Platforms 15 and 16 would be more effective.

Alternative uses of public funds.

But this is typical of this scheme, where alternatives for better use of the money have been ignored.

If new homes are to be built, surely better to go with regeneration schemes whose viability has been proved. Holt Town and Victoria North would be more productive sites and help Angela Rayner hit her 1.5 million housing targets. It appears some local politicians have been bewitched by the proximity of football celebrity and lost their common sense.

On a personal note, I find deep irony in the current situation. It could have been avoided if United had accepted an offer from Manchester City Council when we were planning the 2002 Commonwealth Games. We were determined that the Games’ stadium would not become a white elephant. Our plan was to be able to convert the Games’ venue into an 80,000+ replacement or competitor for Wembley. United were the only club with sufficient support to make this viable. I had meetings with Roland Smith, who then chaired United’s board. He rejected the offer.

There were then meetings with City, who bit our hand off. Given City’s smaller fan base, the size of the ground had to be reduced but City’s new home in a state-of-the-art stadium made them attractive to first Thaksin Shinawatra and then to the Abu Dhabi United Group, effectively the Abu Dhabi state. This and the subsequent investment in the team has led to City’s recent spectacular success and then improvements in the ground. Irony or what?!

Coe

Incidentally, what is Sebastian Coe doing anywhere near a Manchester project? Does nobody remember his assault and undermining of Manchester’s bid for investment and the Olympic Games? Somebody should dig out his anti-Manchester quotes and buy him a one-way ticket back to London.

Reeves

When Rachel Reeves announced her new determination to grow the economy with investment in infrastructure there was no surprise that the major schemes were in the south: the Lower Thames Crossing, Heathrow and the Cambridge-Oxford corridor. She also rather embarrassingly claimed no new runways had been built in the country since 1945. Yet her Leeds constituency has jobs dependent on the success of Manchester Airport, which of course built a new runway at the start of this century. Like a drowning person, she is clutching for any straw to save her face as a Northern MP. New Trafford is not that straw.

Obscene

It would be politically obscene when the government is considering cuts to benefits and services to some of the poorest people in the country to present a cheque of hundreds of millions of pounds to a tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme. Sir Jim Ratcliffe could replace the subsidy from public funds he is seeking from the money he doesn’t pay in British taxes. I doubt he would notice it.
 
In reply to you and @Citizen of Legoland
I agree with subsidising travel if that travel is needed. I certainly agree with subsidising travel in the more rural areas, I sometimes forget people don't realise I am posting about local Manchester travel.
The tram goes to most parts of Manchester and is easily accessible. It has had a huge impact on people who used to travel by bus. It makes sense to review bus routes and travel to see if they are needed. It is pie in the sky to say buses should run at a huge loss when other transport is available.
My argument, to bring it back on topic is, just because Burnham says it is a wonderful idea, (the stadium) doesn't mean it is. He states the buses now run a brilliant service, all thanks to him. (Sasha Lord says hi) They don't. It's spin (lies) so is this Trafford rebirth.

Burnham is an opportunist ****, I wouldnt trust him as far as I can throw him.
 

‘A tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme’​


The Blackley and Middleton South MP (and United fan) writes on Ratcliffe and Co’s proposals for the stadium and surrounding area -

Labour’s Andy Burnham claims to be confident of financial support from Labour’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rachel Reeves, for the so-called “New Trafford”. This is the proposal to replace Manchester United’s 115 years old ground with a new state of the art, £2 billion stadium on the land of an adjacent rail freight hub.

No Manchester United fan or Labour politician should support these plans. I am both, and believe the proposals are an ill-thought-out concept and wrong in principle.

Where the real problem rests.

United’s problem is not the stadium, which has the largest capacity of any club stadium in the country, it is United’s failure to win sufficient games in the stadium. This is partly the consequence of the loss of focus on the key United product, football, and the poor recruitment of players. Commercial deals are vital, but they have become more important than the football.

According to the Financial Times, Manchester United’s marquee signings lose more value and faster than any other European football club. They are also less productive playing for a smaller percentage of time than other clubs’ major signings. Angel Di Maria, who United bought for £59.7 million in 2014, a British club record at the time, only played for 8% of the available time.

A new stadium will not improve the team, in fact history shows many teams moving into new grounds have a dip in form. This point was put to me succinctly while standing on the terraces at Hillsborough in the 1960s. This ground was considered one of the best in the country at the time, having invested in a large modern cantilever stand. It was regularly chosen for FA Cup semi-finals. A typically dour Yorkshireman seeing his side trailing to United, said “I’m still waiting for the bloody new cantilever stand to score a goal.”

Am I the only person to think there is a distinctly fishy smell when the part owner of United predicts imminent bankruptcy while simultaneously launching an ill-defined scheme costing £2 billion.

What don’t we know?

Some supporters suspect that New Trafford will not be owned by United but leased back from new owners (the current ground is 100% owned by United). Selling the naming rights for the stadium would be extremely lucrative as would building housing on the site of the current stadium and its environs.

Before embarking on a regeneration project, it is usual for viability and impact studies to be undertaken, not in this case. The proposals are as transparent as a block of lead and raise many questions. Inevitably the rail freight terminal would have to be moved to St Helens. Are we really in the business of moving jobs to Merseyside? I think not.

It is also rumoured that the new stadium would be prefabricated abroad and sailed up the Ship Canal and assembled. Few Manchester jobs would be created.

Unsubstantiated Claims


Unsubstantiated claims are that moving the freight would ease congestion at Manchester Piccadilly, but alternatives for potentially £300 million of public subsidy are not being considered. Maybe investment in digital signalling or investment in Platforms 15 and 16 would be more effective.

Alternative uses of public funds.

But this is typical of this scheme, where alternatives for better use of the money have been ignored.

If new homes are to be built, surely better to go with regeneration schemes whose viability has been proved. Holt Town and Victoria North would be more productive sites and help Angela Rayner hit her 1.5 million housing targets. It appears some local politicians have been bewitched by the proximity of football celebrity and lost their common sense.

On a personal note, I find deep irony in the current situation. It could have been avoided if United had accepted an offer from Manchester City Council when we were planning the 2002 Commonwealth Games. We were determined that the Games’ stadium would not become a white elephant. Our plan was to be able to convert the Games’ venue into an 80,000+ replacement or competitor for Wembley. United were the only club with sufficient support to make this viable. I had meetings with Roland Smith, who then chaired United’s board. He rejected the offer.

There were then meetings with City, who bit our hand off. Given City’s smaller fan base, the size of the ground had to be reduced but City’s new home in a state-of-the-art stadium made them attractive to first Thaksin Shinawatra and then to the Abu Dhabi United Group, effectively the Abu Dhabi state. This and the subsequent investment in the team has led to City’s recent spectacular success and then improvements in the ground. Irony or what?!

Coe

Incidentally, what is Sebastian Coe doing anywhere near a Manchester project? Does nobody remember his assault and undermining of Manchester’s bid for investment and the Olympic Games? Somebody should dig out his anti-Manchester quotes and buy him a one-way ticket back to London.

Reeves

When Rachel Reeves announced her new determination to grow the economy with investment in infrastructure there was no surprise that the major schemes were in the south: the Lower Thames Crossing, Heathrow and the Cambridge-Oxford corridor. She also rather embarrassingly claimed no new runways had been built in the country since 1945. Yet her Leeds constituency has jobs dependent on the success of Manchester Airport, which of course built a new runway at the start of this century. Like a drowning person, she is clutching for any straw to save her face as a Northern MP. New Trafford is not that straw.

Obscene

It would be politically obscene when the government is considering cuts to benefits and services to some of the poorest people in the country to present a cheque of hundreds of millions of pounds to a tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme. Sir Jim Ratcliffe could replace the subsidy from public funds he is seeking from the money he doesn’t pay in British taxes. I doubt he would notice it.
Wow. A very honest assessment, by a United fan at that, of this absurd idea.
I had forgotten how Coe had slagged Manchester off regarding the Olympics.

OP, please post this in the United thread as some may not come in here. It needs a wider audience.
 
Wow. A very honest assessment, by a United fan at that, of this absurd idea.
I had forgotten how Coe had slagged Manchester off regarding the Olympics.

OP, please post this in the United thread as some may not come in here. It needs a wider audience.
It is very honest and I agree with pretty much everything he writes but "effectively the Abu Dhabi state"?
 
There's a legal challenge going on at the moment. A developer is claiming that the funding to Renaker is distorting the market because they have access to preferential borrowing costs. On the face of it, Renaker appear to be getting a good deal. It doesn't bother me on account of they have been successfully completing schemes around M/cr & Salford, so I'm sure GMCA are getting a decent return coupled with the rates & GVA spend from residents.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/gmca-faces-legal-challenge-over-renaker-loans/
The rates were nowhere near what would have triggered a state aid breach, and hundreds of people would have had access at the 10 districts plus the CA to the full terms, so the challenge was a surprise. It was a level playing field for developers, but the knock is too much went to one. When there were a lack of people applying I couldn't see fault, and it certainly was nothing like corruption, malfeasance or even misfeasance, just another developer/land owner vexed as they missed a trick :)

I'm not a Burnham fan but this would have happened with or without him, and from a governance point of view he wasn't making the decisions, it was leaders from districts.
 
The rates were nowhere near what would have triggered a state aid breach, and hundreds of people would have had access at the 10 districts plus the CA to the full terms, so the challenge was a surprise. It was a level playing field for developers, but the knock is too much went to one. When there were a lack of people applying I couldn't see fault, and it certainly was nothing like corruption, malfeasance or even misfeasance, just another developer/land owner vexed as they missed a trick :)

I'm not a Burnham fan but this would have happened with or without him, and from a governance point of view he wasn't making the decisions, it was leaders from districts.
I think Weis Group are just trying it on with the planners & GMCA, as there's other things going on in the background re their planning application
 

Just read the article, so basically fraudulently claim £410.000, then put the company in liquidation with almost 100,000 of monies owed to the government in the form of unpaid VAT and a government-backed “bounce-back loan” so half a million gone ! Yet no crime has been commited ?
Fucking stinks !
 
Just read the article, so basically fraudulently claim £410.000, then put the company in liquidation with almost 100,000 of monies owed to the government in the form of unpaid VAT and a government-backed “bounce-back loan” so half a million gone ! Yet no crime has been commited ?
Fucking stinks !

Gives his support for Sacha Lord, still can’t offer support for City….

Both of these are bent as fuck, stealing from the people they are meant to serve the greedy cunts!
 

‘A tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme’​


The Blackley and Middleton South MP (and United fan) writes on Ratcliffe and Co’s proposals for the stadium and surrounding area -

Labour’s Andy Burnham claims to be confident of financial support from Labour’s Chancellor of the Exchequer, Rachel Reeves, for the so-called “New Trafford”. This is the proposal to replace Manchester United’s 115 years old ground with a new state of the art, £2 billion stadium on the land of an adjacent rail freight hub.

No Manchester United fan or Labour politician should support these plans. I am both, and believe the proposals are an ill-thought-out concept and wrong in principle.

Where the real problem rests.

United’s problem is not the stadium, which has the largest capacity of any club stadium in the country, it is United’s failure to win sufficient games in the stadium. This is partly the consequence of the loss of focus on the key United product, football, and the poor recruitment of players. Commercial deals are vital, but they have become more important than the football.

According to the Financial Times, Manchester United’s marquee signings lose more value and faster than any other European football club. They are also less productive playing for a smaller percentage of time than other clubs’ major signings. Angel Di Maria, who United bought for £59.7 million in 2014, a British club record at the time, only played for 8% of the available time.

A new stadium will not improve the team, in fact history shows many teams moving into new grounds have a dip in form. This point was put to me succinctly while standing on the terraces at Hillsborough in the 1960s. This ground was considered one of the best in the country at the time, having invested in a large modern cantilever stand. It was regularly chosen for FA Cup semi-finals. A typically dour Yorkshireman seeing his side trailing to United, said “I’m still waiting for the bloody new cantilever stand to score a goal.”

Am I the only person to think there is a distinctly fishy smell when the part owner of United predicts imminent bankruptcy while simultaneously launching an ill-defined scheme costing £2 billion.

What don’t we know?

Some supporters suspect that New Trafford will not be owned by United but leased back from new owners (the current ground is 100% owned by United). Selling the naming rights for the stadium would be extremely lucrative as would building housing on the site of the current stadium and its environs.

Before embarking on a regeneration project, it is usual for viability and impact studies to be undertaken, not in this case. The proposals are as transparent as a block of lead and raise many questions. Inevitably the rail freight terminal would have to be moved to St Helens. Are we really in the business of moving jobs to Merseyside? I think not.

It is also rumoured that the new stadium would be prefabricated abroad and sailed up the Ship Canal and assembled. Few Manchester jobs would be created.

Unsubstantiated Claims


Unsubstantiated claims are that moving the freight would ease congestion at Manchester Piccadilly, but alternatives for potentially £300 million of public subsidy are not being considered. Maybe investment in digital signalling or investment in Platforms 15 and 16 would be more effective.

Alternative uses of public funds.

But this is typical of this scheme, where alternatives for better use of the money have been ignored.

If new homes are to be built, surely better to go with regeneration schemes whose viability has been proved. Holt Town and Victoria North would be more productive sites and help Angela Rayner hit her 1.5 million housing targets. It appears some local politicians have been bewitched by the proximity of football celebrity and lost their common sense.

On a personal note, I find deep irony in the current situation. It could have been avoided if United had accepted an offer from Manchester City Council when we were planning the 2002 Commonwealth Games. We were determined that the Games’ stadium would not become a white elephant. Our plan was to be able to convert the Games’ venue into an 80,000+ replacement or competitor for Wembley. United were the only club with sufficient support to make this viable. I had meetings with Roland Smith, who then chaired United’s board. He rejected the offer.

There were then meetings with City, who bit our hand off. Given City’s smaller fan base, the size of the ground had to be reduced but City’s new home in a state-of-the-art stadium made them attractive to first Thaksin Shinawatra and then to the Abu Dhabi United Group, effectively the Abu Dhabi state. This and the subsequent investment in the team has led to City’s recent spectacular success and then improvements in the ground. Irony or what?!

Coe

Incidentally, what is Sebastian Coe doing anywhere near a Manchester project? Does nobody remember his assault and undermining of Manchester’s bid for investment and the Olympic Games? Somebody should dig out his anti-Manchester quotes and buy him a one-way ticket back to London.

Reeves

When Rachel Reeves announced her new determination to grow the economy with investment in infrastructure there was no surprise that the major schemes were in the south: the Lower Thames Crossing, Heathrow and the Cambridge-Oxford corridor. She also rather embarrassingly claimed no new runways had been built in the country since 1945. Yet her Leeds constituency has jobs dependent on the success of Manchester Airport, which of course built a new runway at the start of this century. Like a drowning person, she is clutching for any straw to save her face as a Northern MP. New Trafford is not that straw.

Obscene

It would be politically obscene when the government is considering cuts to benefits and services to some of the poorest people in the country to present a cheque of hundreds of millions of pounds to a tax exile’s half-baked misbegotten scheme. Sir Jim Ratcliffe could replace the subsidy from public funds he is seeking from the money he doesn’t pay in British taxes. I doubt he would notice it.
Good read that, maybe it’s them lot that needs to move to St Helens, Burnham could then join em as local mayor. Noticed Coe is running for IOC presidency, got a feeling he’ll be using the rags to boost his popularity & no doubt land them some tie ins with the role
 
FFS!

I'm astonished she didn't name check Lou Macari's Chippy.

It really is depressing when you hear a government minister come out with predictable sound bites, spin, and guff like she has, along with a fake and cheesy smile.

What the fuck has a new 100,000 seater stadium got to do with young boys and girls playing football?

As for the reporter, could he have asked her anymore loaded and softer questions than those?

It's happening, with no serious question asked.


 
Last edited:
FFS!

I'm astonished she didn't name check Lou Macari's Chippy.

It really is depressing when you hear a government minister come out with predictable sound bites, spin, and guff like she has, along with a fake and cheesy smile.

What the fuck has a new 100,000 seater stadium got to do with young boys and girls playing football?

As for the reporter, could he have asked her anymore loaded and softer questions than those?

It's happening, with no serious question asked.



The full of shit harpy also states "The exciting thing about this project is not just what it will do for Manchester United but what it will potentially do for the whole area and communities who live there"

So basically utd will benefit and the rest of the area might if they are lucky
 
The full of shit harpy also states "The exciting thing about this project is not just what it will do for Manchester United but what it will potentially do for the whole area and communities who live there"

So basically utd will benefit and the rest of the area might if they are lucky
It’s like FC United just on a different scale.
Let the council bail out and subsidise the fuckers and in return they’ll collect coats for the homeless at Xmas
 
It’s like FC United just on a different scale.
Let the council bail out and subsidise the fuckers and in return they’ll collect coats for the homeless at Xmas

At some stage there will be a ceremonial spectacular, when all the great unwashed (c) James.H.Reeve, get to witness Scruffy Jim on a plinth having his tummy tickled and his bollocks lightly caressed
 
The full of shit harpy also states "The exciting thing about this project is not just what it will do for Manchester United but what it will potentially do for the whole area and communities who live there"

So basically utd will benefit and the rest of the area might if they are lucky
Political grandstanding.

The ripple effect of political trumpeting by charlatans with vested interests.

The government should not be actively and enthusiasticly promoting a stunt that they say they are not financing or subsidising,
and one that will enrichen two tax evading owners & a club who's registered in a tax haven.

This venal government of lightweight local councilors should shut the fuck up cheerleading a deception of tax payers.

BTW.....check out Coe's ( Is his family name actually Coeburg ) 'anti Manchester' spewing from a few years back.

No Planning.
No Money.
No Hope.


Charlatans the fucking lot of them !!
 
Where rubber meets the road -:

Yewnytid want to build a stadium.

They don't own the land.

They don't have the money.

Government won't fund it.

Regeneration will happen without it.

Paul Daniels is dead.

As Jim Bown would've said

" This is what you could've won !!
 

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