Middle East Conflict

gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m not sure there are many options but the notion that Israel will stop what it’s doing once the hostages are released doesn’t bear any scrutiny. I’ve got pelters for this previously, but Hamas royally fucked up on 7th October. I understand all the arguments around decades of oppression, and lack of options, and I accept the overarching principles around that, but that cannot mean any decision that Hamas makes that arises from that is justifiable or well judged. That’s a ridiculous premise. Every action has consequences, irrespective of where they are rooted.

Trying to be as dispassionate as I can, more targeted and controlled hostage taking would have (imo) elicited a different response because the level of international support for Israel would have been discernibly different. The act of entering Israeli territory and going on the rampage in that way was always going to provoke an extreme response, because of the history of the Jewish people and human territorial instincts more widely, especially when the violated party is far more powerful. That’s just the way it is, lamentably.

And so we are left with this absolute shitshow. Untold misery and hurt, and zero prospect of resolution. The Palestinian people, quite understandably, must hate Israel and Israelis now in a way that cannot ever be resolved. And because of that Israel will feel it needs to double down, in order to protect itself. And so the whole sorry cycle will continue.

At the end of the day, for all the technological leaps and advances in learning we’ve made as a species in the last few thousand years, we’re still basically just upright apes arguing about some territory (when there’s more than enough for everyone) and whose sky fairy is the best.

Due to a combination of those factors, and our ingenuity, we’re basically completely fucked as a species.
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Excellent summary. The human race is royally ficked. 3 years left?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I’m not sure there are many options but the notion that Israel will stop what it’s doing once the hostages are released doesn’t bear any scrutiny. I’ve got pelters for this previously, but Hamas royally fucked up on 7th October. I understand all the arguments around decades of oppression, and lack of options, and I accept the overarching principles around that, but that cannot mean any decision that Hamas makes that arises from that is justifiable or well judged. That’s a ridiculous premise. Every action has consequences, irrespective of where they are rooted.

Trying to be as dispassionate as I can, more targeted and controlled hostage taking would have (imo) elicited a different response because the level of international support for Israel would have been discernibly different. The act of entering Israeli territory and going on the rampage in that way was always going to provoke an extreme response, because of the history of the Jewish people and human territorial instincts more widely, especially when the violated party is far more powerful. That’s just the way it is, lamentably.

And so we are left with this absolute shitshow. Untold misery and hurt, and zero prospect of resolution. The Palestinian people, quite understandably, must hate Israel and Israelis now in a way that cannot ever be resolved. And because of that Israel will feel it needs to double down, in order to protect itself. And so the whole sorry cycle will continue.

At the end of the day, for all the technological leaps and advances in learning we’ve made as a species in the last few thousand years, we’re still basically just upright apes arguing about some territory (when there’s more than enough for everyone) and whose sky fairy is the best.

Due to a combination of those factors, and our ingenuity, we’re basically completely fucked as a species.
Click to expand...
 

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BigJoe#1 said:
Nothing stops them from saying we will release all the people we captured on 7/10 does it?

You clearly don't like Israel but you need, in the interest of humanity need to get the rest of the world on the side of the Palestinians. If ou don't agree then fine but unfortunately you will reap what you sew.

The choice is Hamas's, I mean what have they got to lose if the let the kidnapped innocent people free?
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Most of the world now is on the side of the Palestinians.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Can I just ask a simple question?

Do you think the hostages taken on 7/10 are fair game and deserve to continue to be held?

Yes or no?
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No. Are the thousands of Palestinian hostages fair game?

You either don't know or don't care about them.
 
Vic said:
No. Are the thousands of Palestinian hostages fair game?

You either don't know or don't care about them.
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Are the Palestinians civilians or soldiers/fighters..

No. No civilians should be being held on either side.... so as you agree that those captured on 7/10 who can be easily identified should not be held, lets start by releasing them?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Are the Palestinians civilians or soldiers/fighters..
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Funny how you never sought to make that distinction regarding the Israeli captives.
BigJoe#1 said:
No. No civilians should be being held on either side.... so as you agree that those captured on 7/10 who can be easily identified should not be held, lets start by releasing them?
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Again they were due to be released until Israel, after hundreds of violations, abandoned the ceasefire process. I mean it's not fucking difficult yet you keep banging out the same post page after page.
 
Postman Pep said:
Funny how you never sought to make that distinction regarding the Israeli captives.

Again they were due to be released until Israel, after hundreds of violations, abandoned the ceasefire process. I mean it's not fucking difficult yet you keep banging out the same post page after page.
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Well, I am only talking about the people who were captured on 7/10.

Maybe if the Palestinians or Hamas, could release hostages without making a huge fuss and carnival about it... then again maybe not? Still I think I understand where your views lie, so lets just leave it there shall we? After all the Palestinians are never going to sign up to the two state solution.

I won't wish you luck in your quest to rid the earth of the Israelis.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Do you agree with the amendment? or were they justified in your opinion?
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No, I was talking about Israel so your amendment does not make sense.
Further it's quite strange, sad even that you and others now have a 'day' to remember.
The innoent Palestinians have a whole calender, spanning many years of murderous land grab, subjugation, ethnic cleansing.
I cannot agree with Hamas killing innocent people and taking others hostage but I can understand why they did it.
All Israeli action is doing now is providing more recruits for Hamas as they see no other option.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Are the Palestinians civilians or soldiers/fighters..

No. No civilians should be being held on either side.... so as you agree that those captured on 7/10 who can be easily identified should not be held, lets start by releasing them?
Click to expand...
Now you're either being silly or just daft.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Well, I am only talking about the people who were captured on 7/10.

Maybe if the Palestinians or Hamas, could release hostages without making a huge fuss and carnival about it... then again maybe not? Still I think I understand where your views lie, so lets just leave it there shall we? After all the Palestinians are never going to sign up to the two state solution.

I won't wish you luck in your quest to rid the earth of the Israelis.
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Do you think Netanyahu is going to sign up to a two state solution?

You now must be wumming.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
So where should the Israeli's reside?
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Israel. What boundaries of Israel would you advocate? 1948, 1967, all the West Bank, into Jordan, Lebanon, more of Syria, bits of Iraq and Egypt?

Or is that just "history" that you're not interested in?
 
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