President Trump

lloydie said:
I recall numerous conversations where I tried to persuade and cajole with examples of the inadequacies of the Leave position. Logic and rational arguement held no interest for them. My increasing and obvious frustration only fed their rightiousness and they seemed to enjoy my angst.
In retrospect I probably shouldn't have engaged, if only because it entrenched their position. I can't put this down to the paucity of my arguement as events have since proved me right on all of these.
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And this is why Democrats have effectively disappeared. There’s nothing that’s going to convince MAGA’s fiercest adherents unless they feel the full blast of Trump’s policies themselves in as negative a way as possible and start to suffer, AND then are smart or objective enough to realiz(s)e that it’s their vote that brought this on. Even then, obviously, Biden or likely Powell will be blamed so I’m not even a deep recession or dramatic loss of services could convince them. It could convince those who voted for Trump on a “Republicans are good for the economy” basis though.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
With him advocating the dissolving of the dept. Of Education and individual states having control over their curriculum, you really can see the dissolving of the union as a solution.
You can see red and blue states being treated differently. You can also see them having totally different goals and agendas.
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This map was produced about 20 years ago but it’s not inconceivable any more that something like it could actually happen.
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FogBlueInSanFran said:
And this is why Democrats have effectively disappeared. There’s nothing that’s going to convince MAGA’s fiercest adherents unless they feel the full blast of Trump’s policies themselves in as negative a way as possible and start to suffer, AND then are smart or objective enough to realiz(s)e that it’s their vote that brought this on. Even then, obviously, Biden or likely Powell will be blamed so I’m not even a deep recession or dramatic loss of services could convince them. It could convince those who voted for Trump on a “Republicans are good for the economy” basis though.
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I think most of them could watch him torch their trailer and still believe him when he says that it was Joe Biden's fault.
God knows what their kids will be like, growing up inheriting this as 'normal'
 
noseve said:
I think most of them could watch him torch their trailer and still believe him when he says that it was Joe Biden's fault.
God knows what their kids will be like, growing up inheriting this as 'normal'
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Agreed. The majority are too far gone to ever get back. But he won because the naive believed he’d be good for the economy and some of them are now having regrets I’d guess. Hopefully enough of them — but it’s going to be a loooooong two years and if the 2026 midterms go badly for Trump you can bet even more shade will be cast on election results. If they go well for him I will be very afraid for 2028 — and I’m already pretty fearful now.
 
Blue Mist said:
You are Donald Shit Gibbon but I don't want my 5 dollars.

How do you decide a cut off age ? If a poll suggested anyone over 40 would've voted leave would you deny them a vote ?
Trump democracy at its finest.
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not at all, my cut off date would have excluded myself. Simple fact is that the people who suffer the consequence of the vote are the younger end of the spectrum, because its a long term vote. It's not about whether the vote should have been to remain or to leave
 
Surely majority of America are feeling outraged by now ?
The amount of federal workers and how that would affect their family’s, the pro Palestinian, students , war veteran, women, Muslims , blacks … that’s just top of my head. Surely that’s a huge chunk of America that couldn’t possibly be supporting Trump and Musk right now ?!
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I accept all that, but Brexit ultimately happened because older people were more motivated to vote than younger ones. If younger people had more purposefully engaged with the process then we wouldn’t have voted to leave. So there’s a distinct difference between persuading people who have already made their minds up to change them (which I am all too aware is usually impossible) and persuading those who don’t think their vote will make any difference, when it’s, in fact, as important as anyone else’s.

Can’t speak for the demographics in the US Election but it was close enough to suggest that waking people up to the consequences who thought they didn’t have much skin in the game (or simply couldn’t be arsed voting) could have made a difference to the outcome.
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At 66 I am a foc.
It never crossed my mind to leave the EU and because I was out of the country at the time of the vote I was unable to do so. The vote was only supposed to be a recommendation in any case.
I also thought that a bigger %age of the vote, maybe 70%, would have been required to get it over the line.
Certainly not 2%!
Somewhere along the line the recommendation mysteriously became set in stone. I doubt that would have happened had 'remain' prevailed.
We are were we are however.
Regarding Trump, what a pity Musk didn't use that chainsaw to good effect when he had the opportunity.
That would have been quite the result....
 
ChicagoBlue said:
Speaking of bootlickers (and who knows what else?), this is the Attorney General of the United States, who is supposed to uphold the Constitution of the United States on behalf of THE COUNTRY, NOT BE TRUMP’S PERSONAL ANTI-CONSTITUTION LAWYER…she’s talking about THE FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM…



Fuck me!
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CB is correct. Her speech violates her duty as an officer of the court. Clause 3 of the constitution gives courts the duty to ensure that the executive administer laws passed by Congress fairly. A judge may ask any question to this end. Judge Boasberg is not, as Trump has posted, an obscure judge; he is the judiciary’s prime expert on terrorism having been chief judge of the two special sections which oversee terrorism cases. He is the chief judge of DC federal court and a distinguished jurist.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
How on earth could they? They sat down to write a document on a piece of parchment before steam powered travel, the internal combustion engine, powered flight, space travel, radio, tv, mobile communications and the internet were even conceived of.

It was written in a time before we even knew dinosaurs had existed.

It may as well have been written by cavemen.
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That’s the problem with a written constitution. UK’s often maligned constitution seldom has this problem, but we have a top down parliamentary system so separation of powers is generally not needed. We do, however, have the Parliament Act as a safeguard, providing the ultimate authority of the Commons over the Lords.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
If we, as a nation, elected someone like that (and Liz Truss doesn’t count because of our absurd electoral system) then I think we would all have to take collective responsibility, because we all would have failed (to differing degrees) as we could not sufficiently persuade those who we interacted with day to do what a terrible thing it would be when all the signs were there.

I certainly feel a similar sense of responsibility for Brexit. It’s not quite a sense of culpability, but I do wonder if I could have done more to persuade others in the lead up to the vote, especially those who didn’t turn out.
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Blame Cameron. The plebiscite was supposed to be advisory but Cameron feared his anti Europe MPs and so enacted the bill. Cowardice personified, putting party above country.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Surely majority of America are feeling outraged by now ?
The amount of federal workers and how that would affect their family’s, the pro Palestinian, students , war veteran, women, Muslims , blacks … that’s just top of my head. Surely that’s a huge chunk of America that couldn’t possibly be supporting Trump and Musk right now ?!
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you'd think so wouldn't you, and yet......
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Surely majority of America are feeling outraged by now ?
The amount of federal workers and how that would affect their family’s, the pro Palestinian, students , war veteran, women, Muslims , blacks … that’s just top of my head. Surely that’s a huge chunk of America that couldn’t possibly be supporting Trump and Musk right now ?!
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There is plenty of outrage and big demos. Huge demo planned for DC on April 4.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Surely majority of America are feeling outraged by now ?
The amount of federal workers and how that would affect their family’s, the pro Palestinian, students , war veteran, women, Muslims , blacks … that’s just top of my head. Surely that’s a huge chunk of America that couldn’t possibly be supporting Trump and Musk right now ?!
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Anyone who voted for Trump has zero right to moan about a single thing the **** does over the next four years. He said he was going to be a dictator and that’s exactly what they got.
 
Grassland Blue said:
At 66 I am a foc.
It never crossed my mind to leave the EU and because I was out of the country at the time of the vote I was unable to do so. The vote was only supposed to be a recommendation in any case.
I also thought that a bigger %age of the vote, maybe 70%, would have been required to get it over the line.
Certainly not 2%!
Somewhere along the line the recommendation mysteriously became set in stone. I doubt that would have happened had 'remain' prevailed.
We are were we are however.
Regarding Trump, what a pity Musk didn't use that chainsaw to good effect when he had the opportunity.
That would have been quite the result....
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It was a simple majority to go in so it had to be a simple majority to come out. Changing exit and entry requirements seem a bit like 'tyranny of the majority';-).
I think the real long term problem was that remain were so confident of victory, so much so, a bloody nose by leave left them bewildered and confused and that a continued need to rail against the decision was all that was left. As you say we are where we are, some disappointed some not. Bit like losing a beauty, hard to take but you have to move on.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
There’s a cut off age the other way tbf. Why should an 85 year old have more say in the nation’s future than a 17 year old? Is that fair?

Not saying it’s an appealing idea, or that I agree with it, but it’s worthy of debate.
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That is totally different.
All people under the age of 18 are not allowed to vote no matter who they may vote for.
Stating that those over 60 were more likely to vote leave and therefore should not be allowed to vote is Trump at his finest.
 
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