Change from within isn't really an option at this time imho, for instance I believe Labour members voted on our voting system. It was ignored by those in charge, why? Because once they get in those in the trough aren't having their shit taken away from them.
Lib dems agreed to a coalition based on a vote on PR, the main two actively campaigned against it, why? Who are the parties that gain most from fptp? Nothing to do with whats right.
You're right Labour members overwhelmingly backed PR, yet the leadership shelved it. Nothing to do with what’s right just what protects power. The irony is Labour would likely have been in government more often since 1980 under PR, thanks to consistent anti-Tory majorities across the left and centre.
IMO parties are more open to internal influence when they're in power. When governing, they need to keep MPs onside to pass legislation and avoid leadership challenges makes them more likely to bend to internal pressure. In opposition, it's all posturing and purity tests. The Tories have understood this for years, win the election first, then let the infighting commence. Grab power then argue about which flavour of Thatcherism to reheat. Ruthless, but effective
Let's look at our old favorite immigration decades of promises of reduction, up and up it went, free movement of people. Any negatives ignored. What eventually happened? Ukip started getting more and more popular and the status quo gambled on doing nothing, this time they lost big time. Some are still crying nine years later, lessons learnt? Zip.
Immigration became a pressure valve the establishment ignored for too long, but let’s not pretend the conversation was one-sided. For decades, the UK debate was dominated by negative messaging, not silence.
The real issue wasn’t that no one talked about immigration it’s that the main parties failed to lead an honest conversation about why it happens, what levels are sustainable, and what the country needs. They dodged the hard questions and let the narrative drift and UKIP/Reform filled that vacuum with anger and simplicity.
A wake up call for them maybe? Not a chance. They're the adults you see, the smart ones, only they ain't. Their supporters have just voted in a Labour Party to get rid of the Tories and they have ended up with the Tory party very clever. And the Govt themselves? Well they finally got in and they are lost in a sea of desperation.
Anyhow we have to hope the left can get their act together and start putting pressure on this current lot. One day we may have an actual choice again.
Maybe then some posters on here will stop pretending they agree with who they voted for all the time and discuss in good faith.
Most people didn’t vote
for Labour, they just wanted the Tories out. I was willing to give Starmer the benefit of the doubt, play it safe, don’t scare the media, get into No.10 and then deliver real change once inside. So far, it feels like we just swapped blue suits for red ties, with a bit more competence and a lot less culture war noise. That’s something, but it’s not transformation.
I’m with you, the left does need to get its act together. The problem is, Corbyn burned a lot of political capital, he led the left with all the tactical brilliance of a man trying to storm a castle armed with a spoon and a copy of The Morning Star, he made Boris look like Churchill in a hi-vis vest. We need ambition, clarity, and some actual courage not just “we’re not them.
Easier just to pretend that those with a different view are stupid, racist or wums though and they will all just vanish. We won't though. Clever lot.
Anyhow must stop moaning as we've never had it so good:-)
I do genuinely appreciate the reply and I hope you have a least seen where im at even if you don't agree.
Interesting times.
Comments like these don’t help the debate they just entrench division. That said, I get the frustration behind it.
Many people drawn to Reform/MAGA are, for want of a better term, people who feel left behind. They’re not usually politically engaged, and they gravitate toward messages that sound like common sense. That doesn’t mean they’re stupid or racist, it means no one’s earned their trust or spoken to their reality in a meaningful way.
But it’s also on them to engage in return. If you want to be taken seriously in political discussion, it has to go beyond shouting “stop the boats”. Forums like this work best when people are willing to explain their views, be challenged, and actually listen, no matter what party they're leaning toward.
Otherwise, we’re just shouting past each other and nothing changes.
