Roll call for 9 minute protest

[Manchester33]

Mate, suggesting that Colin bloody Savage is trying to stop or decry City fans protesting is some form of bizarre reality that I can't even fathom exists. He helped invent City fans protesting.

I know Colin has done loads. I've actually met him a few times. We have spoken about this point on another forum recently (think it was the open letter one).

I feel that he is adding to the derailment of fans' very valid points about the ticketing issues by constantly posting about how the word tourist is racist and essentially (IMO) insinuating that racism and the protests are somewhat linked.

I think it's disingenuous.

The main groups behind the protests have stopped using the word tourist and are using 'non-city fans'. There is no need to constantly keep bringing this up over and over again. In fact, it's detrimental to people who are actually trying to improve things. It's pedantic.

I'm done posting about it now because I'm flabergasted as to why we're talking about racism on this thread.

 

[blueparrot]

But some of my best mates ARE Asian :(

Jokes aside, half my family are from Shanghai and they're all Blues. They seem split on the issue of whether there's a racism problem at City (and it's almost entirely due to where they sit and what types of games they go to imo) but agree that when people say "tourist", some people mean "people who aren't white". There's nothing really we can do against thins that I can come up with, outside of calling them a ****, which already happens.

The 'tourist' thing isn't even a racist thing,though it might be for some. Even my son who's been coming with me for 17 years now since he was 8 and had a muttered comment at a game last season, because ( he presumed) he has an accent (Scottish ) and he decided to take a selfie at the ground to send to a liverpool supporting work colleague.
It didn't particularly bother him,and it was a one off,but it's probably the main reason I think we should distinguish from a day tripper visiting and those openly supporting the away team in home blocks .Two different things for me. Not just use a catch all label like 'tourist' usually in a derogatory way.
If they are just a visitor then where they got their ticket and at whose expense isn't their problem, though for balance I've sat all over with match day tickets and sat amongst obvious,I think, day trippers and never seen any problems, and regularly S/C holders offering to take photographs for them and chatting with them.

 

[oakiecokie]

Maybe he's supporting the fans?

Maybe he's not a fucking mug?

But not once did he give anything positive out of a long line of "fuck you City".

 

[mexico1970]

The 'tourist' thing isn't even a racist thing,though it might be for some. Even my son who's been coming with me for 17 years now since he was 8 and had a muttered comment at a game last season, because ( he presumed) he has an accent (Scottish ) and he decided to take a selfie at the ground to send to a liverpool supporting work colleague.
It didn't particularly bother him,and it was a one off,but it's probably the main reason I think we should distinguish from a day tripper visiting and those openly supporting the away team in home blocks .Two different things for me. Not just use a catch all label like 'tourist' usually in a derogatory way.
If they are just a visitor then where they got their ticket and at whose expense isn't their problem, though for balance I've sat all over with match day tickets and sat amongst obvious,I think, day trippers and never seen any problems, and regularly S/C holders offering to take photographs for them and chatting with them.

People have been abundantly clear what they mean by the term "Tourist" meaning jumping up and down when the opposing team scores and they are in our end.

But alas the hard of hearing wont/can't accept that and want everyone to acquiesce to their insecurities.

 

[oakiecokie]

Sometimes people need a panning.

I suspect when Mansour and Khaldoon understand the issue we will see progress. They aren't the enemy here. At least, I hope they aren't.

I raised the point on here after the take-over that there is no-one on the Board with football experience. I am talking the Board, not the executive "board" under Soriano with the likes of Danny Wilson on it.

I asked from where does Mansour get his football information to keep the CEO and his team in check? I was reliably told that Mansour appoints the best people and let's them get on with it. That isn't my experience of billionaires, and I have worked with a couple. From my experience, they appoint the best people then gather information from multiple sources and use that to weigh against the information they get from their best people. Especially, I would suggest, on their most visible investment. If you don't do that you get situations like this one and like the ESL.

So, if Mansour's only source of football information is Soriano through Khaldoon, how do fans get messages through? Danny Wilson? Soriano? Useless. You can't email Mansour and no-one is meeting him in the bar .....

The match protest was the perfect way of getting the message across and I can only imagine it worked. I live in hope that, in the next couple of weeks, we will see some change from Soriano dictated from above. I am with @Damocles on this. There is plenty of scope for a reduction in prices and I have even tried to point out why that would be good strategy for the club. But a freeze would be a good start for Soriano not to lose face.

Let's see what happens in the rest of this month.

I agree that to some extent and I support your post, but by now I think that the Execs have a good understanding of how to run a football club. ;)
I`m being sarky by the way. ;)

 

[blueparrot]

People have been abundantly clear what they mean by the term "Tourist" meaning jumping up and down when the opposing team scores and they are in our end.

But alas the hard of hearing wont/can't accept that and want everyone to acquiesce to their insecurities.

Only you have decided on that, others have been more nuanced.So I'll stick to debating it with those thanks

 

[oakiecokie]

That’s the only thing you took issue with out of all those points?
They key point was that it wasn’t tragedy chanting. We don’t need an official club statement when what has been sung wasn’t even a tragedy chant.

I don’t support the suits in the boardroom; I support the team, the manager, the sky blue shirt, the badge and fellow City fans… they are my team and I’d support them whether we were top of the PL or midtable in League 1, and they are my fellow Mancunians and Blue brothers from elsewhere, I want them to be able to afford to attend City games and not be surrounded by non-City fans and fans of the away team or opposition player when they do attend.

Plus, I’ve posted a list like that three times in this thread and a fair few times in other threads since about November, directly at people who said we’re moaning about nothing and the club don’t do anything wrong. And when I ask them if they’re happy with all that, not a single one has ever replied with an answer. It’s just been flippant comments like yours that doesn’t answer the question or I haven’t got a response.

Erm answer what question ?? Have you sent me a question ? Seriously.

 

[oakiecokie]

Seriously Oakie, you’re better than this. Is that your only takeaway from all the stuff he posted? I mean, what’s your opinion on everything else he brought up?

I,m giving an opinion as to why he`s only posting negative stuff and one that wasn`t even true. Too many people like to show their negativity towards the club, something similar to pre/post match threads, without giving a thumbs up to all the positives the club have given us since the takeover.
Some of the other stuff I can`t pass an opinion over relate to things I was not aware of, but there are two sides to every story.
The club do get things wrong, something which has been noted and stated by Khaldoon but some people show nothing but paint a black picture on how the club operates.

 

[dronefromsector7G]

I,m giving an opinion as to why he`s only posting negative stuff and one that wasn`t even true. Too many people like to show their negativity towards the club, something similar to pre/post match threads, without giving a thumbs up to all the positives the club have given us since the takeover.
Some of the other stuff I can`t pass an opinion over relate to things I was not aware of, but there are two sides to every story.
The club do get things wrong, something which has been noted and stated by Khaldoon but some people show nothing but paint a black picture on how the club operates.

This thread is about protests so talking about all the positive stuff is pointless. We support the club but it doesn’t mean we have to be happy with everything our (current) owners do.

 

[oakiecokie]

He's still wading through it...

Well it was longer than "War & Peace".

 

[Man_City_Loyal]

Seems individuals are twisting the whole idea of the protest to suit their agenda, a common trait on here in recent years.

Throwing the racism card into all this, or suggesting people are acting like spoilt brats because of what the club has done is another.

Has the fanbase changed? Yes. Some say for the good others say it hasn't.

Is football affordable? No.

Here are my points:

• Football should be affordable for all, not just certain fans. This should be affordable for Local & foreign/tourist fans!!!
• You should not be able to pay for a premium card as your better off financially and get access to tickets ahead of others without doing the hard work or loyalty that many have done?
• Season tickets, need reintroducing, I'd love to get my kids season tickets, I can't take them week in week out as its just too expensive paying individual fees per game.
• 3rd Party sellers, need banning completely.
• Fans touting tickets themselves to away fans etc, they need moving on. Part of the problem
• Fan's attitudes inside the stadium, including the barber incident at Real Madrid, or social Media/Only Fans idiots flaunting their platforms at games, piss poor and needs looking at. Why are the club not doing something over this despite complaints including against a certain Chelsea OF girl flashing herself in the Family stand the other season.
• Rival fans in home section, now this isnt something new (i've done it myself) but lately its as if the club are happy to let this happen. And then react to the problem once its happened.

What would I do:

• Price cap/freeze tickets all over. I pay nearly £100 a year more for my season ticket because I am 1 row behind someone else.
• Cap matchday tickets, if away fans can get it £30 then Home fans should have the same. £30 or £40 max
• Bring in new season tickets for the extended North stand
• Designated singing sections, the club have bragged about the two sections in the past, but last few seasons it's seemingly just full of fans getting a one off ticket and not bothering about being there
• Designated section for younger fans, this works in Sweden and many other leagues, they have a section for younger fans to get together, be with their mates, sing songs whilst being in ear shot of their family members.
• Designated sections in the ground for tourist fans? I believe clubs like United do this, maybe thats the way forward? Not just for home games, but for allocations at away games and at neutral grounds, where certain package tickets can be sold?
• Ban half/half scarfs, selfie sticks etc. (tongue in cheek joke)
• Ban tickets being sold on 3rd party sites, why should rival fans get these tickets? or why should we force genuine football fans/supporters of city to pay over the odds to visit a game of football
• 
  
• Loads more I could say on this but it wont go anywhere

 

[oakiecokie]

This thread is about protests so talking about all the positive stuff is pointless. We support the club but it doesn’t mean we have to be happy with everything our (current) owners do.

I agree with you, but tell that to some posters on here who contribute nothing but negativity. By the way I applaud the lads and lasses who took the "9 minute action".

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

I knew someone would come out with the "some of my best mates are Asian" line.

Stop living in dreamland FFS and accept that some of our fans are racist. A lesson I learned many years ago when I was a senior union official in a big factory is that any large group will reflect society at large. It's nothing to do with the ticketing policy. It's to do with individuals and their attitudes.

What’s this got to do with what is being discussed?

You keep bringing up race and don’t get why? Start another thread so it can be discussed there maybe

 

[oakiecokie]

The problem is that its people using the word 'tourist' pejoratively which is causing the division. I've made the point before that it diverts attention from prices. It's also causing problems with non-white, Mancunian, City fans.

Yet again, City Matters' Mohammed Ullah, a born-and-bred Mancunian and regular Etihad attendee, was abused as a "tourist" on Wednesday and this was in the Tunnel Club FFS.

WTF !!! WOW thats disgraceful.

 

[Manchester33]

Seems individuals are twisting the whole idea of the protest to suit their agenda, a common trait on here in recent years.

Throwing the racism card into all this, or suggesting people are acting like spoilt brats because of what the club has done is another.

Has the fanbase changed? Yes. Some say for the good others say it hasn't.

Is football affordable? No.

Here are my points:

• Football should be affordable for all, not just certain fans. This should be affordable for Local & foreign/tourist fans!!!
• You should not be able to pay for a premium card as your better off financially and get access to tickets ahead of others without doing the hard work or loyalty that many have done?
• Season tickets, need reintroducing, I'd love to get my kids season tickets, I can't take them week in week out as its just too expensive paying individual fees per game.
• 3rd Party sellers, need banning completely.
• Fans touting tickets themselves to away fans etc, they need moving on. Part of the problem
• Fan's attitudes inside the stadium, including the barber incident at Real Madrid, or social Media/Only Fans idiots flaunting their platforms at games, piss poor and needs looking at. Why are the club not doing something over this despite complaints including against a certain Chelsea OF girl flashing herself in the Family stand the other season.
• Rival fans in home section, now this isnt something new (i've done it myself) but lately its as if the club are happy to let this happen. And then react to the problem once its happened.

What would I do:

• Price cap/freeze tickets all over. I pay nearly £100 a year more for my season ticket because I am 1 row behind someone else.
• Cap matchday tickets, if away fans can get it £30 then Home fans should have the same. £30 or £40 max
• Bring in new season tickets for the extended North stand
• Designated singing sections, the club have bragged about the two sections in the past, but last few seasons it's seemingly just full of fans getting a one off ticket and not bothering about being there
• Designated section for younger fans, this works in Sweden and many other leagues, they have a section for younger fans to get together, be with their mates, sing songs whilst being in ear shot of their family members.
• Designated sections in the ground for tourist fans? I believe clubs like United do this, maybe thats the way forward? Not just for home games, but for allocations at away games and at neutral grounds, where certain package tickets can be sold?
• Ban half/half scarfs, selfie sticks etc. (tongue in cheek joke)
• Ban tickets being sold on 3rd party sites, why should rival fans get these tickets? or why should we force genuine football fans/supporters of city to pay over the odds to visit a game of football
• 
  
• Loads more I could say on this but it wont go anywhere

That's a brilliant post.

Thank fuck we're back on topic. :')

 

[The perfect fumble]

I'd argue the opposite. There are almost no people in the world this wealthy who are as culturally connected to their roots as the Bani Yas tribes. You're correct that they've gone from semi-nomadic Bedouins to peoples of extreme wealth but their entire culture is based around a deep respect for the lands in which they roamed.
When the Japanese took over the pearl industry through the invention of artificial pearls, added to the Great Depression making the prestigious real pearls an even more insane luxury, it crashed their economy and they went through pretty extreme hardships that created cultural scars to which sport became an outlet to many. As I say, the area that makes up Abu Dhabi now was a British protectorate and listened to BBC World Service. Sheikh Mansour's Dad was able to form the UAE because his brother was removed in a bloodless coup with help from the British. The UAE and Al Nahyan's aren't a country and people to which British culture and its cultural exports are foreign. Their biggest sports back in the era you showed are animal racing (horse->camel, greyhound->saluki), sailing and football.
In fact there's decent testimony to show that people were playing football under our rules in the Abu Dhabi region before many South American countries. It has always been around due to their British influenced culture and them being international traders.
One of the very FIRST things that Sheikh Zayed (Mansour's father) did after he established the UAE was to create a national football team and use this as a collective source of UAE pride. They were playing international games like 8 weeks after the country was invented which is metal when you think of it.

I think if you add all these elements together - the cultural respect for lands and peoples, the collective understanding of sports as a recreation, and the hardships they endured during the Great Depression then I'd argue that they probably "get" English football supporters culture a billion times more than someone like the Glazers or FSG who live in a world of movable franchises. There's very few people in the world I'd prefer owned our football club than Sheikh Mansour with Khaldoon running the Board, but as much as I respect how they've gone about things, if I my kids grow up in a world where they cannot afford to watch City and it happens under their stewardship then I'm going to blame them for it.

This is well meaning whataboutery

The problems at City are mirrored at other clubs, take a look at Yanky owned Liverpool, I choose Liverpool because unlike Utd they've been relatively successful recently, but FSG is corporate America, they're just more astute than the Glazers at running a franchise.

Liverpool were at the forefront of the Super League and one of the main drivers around the 115 campaign to destroy our reputation, that kind of ruthlessness is as American as mom and apple pie. They'll win the league this season but they'll not invest enough to take them to next level.

The scousers might consider themselves Madrid level but FSG aren't willing to make the investment to get them there, our owners are, they have the motivation and the means to do it, and while Khaldoon talks about patience, he's actually in a hurry and when you're in a hurry you trample on stuff, particularly if you have no affinity to it.

Legacy fans are in the way of what Khaldoon wants to build here, whereas FSG pay lip service to the Anfield atmosphere, it's history and the fans, they do so because, and this is the point, Liverpool's legacy generates revenue ours does not.

In fact Liverpool's legacy serves a dual purpose, a glorious history and the Anfield experience has been commodified to keep the Irish and the Scandinavians coming even during the lean times, and be in no doubt, there'll be more lean times for the scousers and the Danes and the Irish than for us. Because FSG won't spend the money as we will, coz they're in the franchise business and we're in the dynasty building business and new dynasties are built on the ruins of the old...

hence....

To....

Emiratis might love football and might indulge what they see as the quirks and peculiarities of Manchester City football culture and its people, but not if it stands in the way of what they want to build, if it's in the way its gone, in this one regard they're even more of a danger than the likes of FSG or even the Glazers.

 

[oakiecokie]

Spot on.

Every protest is bedevilled with noises off and whataboutery and I mean every protest, from hundreds of thousands marching over something or other through Whitehall , to the Parish Council complaining about litter.

No matter how big or small, all protests represent a conflict between those with power and those without and most of them fail because of that disparity, but not all. Those that succeed keep their eyes on the prize and exploit those areas where the powerful are vulnerable.

This protest is bad PR for the club, and despite City's PR being generally terrible the club will no doubt be embarrassed by this show of dissent, but they'll not be too fussed, they know they can ride out a one off event. To counter their complacency the protests need to be constant and relentless, while at the same time avoiding fatigue and the danger of falling fowl of the law of diminishing returns, otherwise the club will simply wait for the news cycle to wash over it. The 1894 group are at the core of this and they need to work out a strategy, an identifiable list of demands and establish what success might look like.

This is all a pain in the arse and the chances of success are not great, but Khaldoon clearly takes pride in the idea that the Sheikh is a benevolent custodian of the club, that's the club's strength, but it's also its weakness, because despite being capable and ambitious owners and our senior management being top notch professionals in running a company in the football entertainment industry, they don't have a Scooby Doo about running a northern English football club with a history that goes back to 1880, how could they?

Not to labour the point, but this is a picture of Abu Dhabi in 1962...

They've come a long way in a short time and they are a proud, dynamic and honourable people, Khaldoon is a great chairman and the Sheikh a great owner, but they have no idea what it is to love City as we do, how inextricably woven into our lives it is, how the club is an essential part of us and the City of Manchester, how could they feel that? They might just as well own a football club on Mars.

As for Ferran Soriano? A very capable executive, but as far as understanding the soul of the club? I don't know about.....

He's more...

Are you suggesting that we`ve become a Micky Mouse Club ? ;)

 

[blueparrot]

Seems individuals are twisting the whole idea of the protest to suit their agenda, a common trait on here in recent years.

Throwing the racism card into all this, or suggesting people are acting like spoilt brats because of what the club has done is another.

Has the fanbase changed? Yes. Some say for the good others say it hasn't.

Is football affordable? No.

Here are my points:

• Football should be affordable for all, not just certain fans. This should be affordable for Local & foreign/tourist fans!!!
• You should not be able to pay for a premium card as your better off financially and get access to tickets ahead of others without doing the hard work or loyalty that many have done?
• Season tickets, need reintroducing, I'd love to get my kids season tickets, I can't take them week in week out as its just too expensive paying individual fees per game.
• 3rd Party sellers, need banning completely.
• Fans touting tickets themselves to away fans etc, they need moving on. Part of the problem
• Fan's attitudes inside the stadium, including the barber incident at Real Madrid, or social Media/Only Fans idiots flaunting their platforms at games, piss poor and needs looking at. Why are the club not doing something over this despite complaints including against a certain Chelsea OF girl flashing herself in the Family stand the other season.
• Rival fans in home section, now this isnt something new (i've done it myself) but lately its as if the club are happy to let this happen. And then react to the problem once its happened.

What would I do:

• Price cap/freeze tickets all over. I pay nearly £100 a year more for my season ticket because I am 1 row behind someone else.
• Cap matchday tickets, if away fans can get it £30 then Home fans should have the same. £30 or £40 max
• Bring in new season tickets for the extended North stand
• Designated singing sections, the club have bragged about the two sections in the past, but last few seasons it's seemingly just full of fans getting a one off ticket and not bothering about being there
• Designated section for younger fans, this works in Sweden and many other leagues, they have a section for younger fans to get together, be with their mates, sing songs whilst being in ear shot of their family members.
• Designated sections in the ground for tourist fans? I believe clubs like United do this, maybe thats the way forward? Not just for home games, but for allocations at away games and at neutral grounds, where certain package tickets can be sold?
• Ban half/half scarfs, selfie sticks etc. (tongue in cheek joke)
• Ban tickets being sold on 3rd party sites, why should rival fans get these tickets? or why should we force genuine football fans/supporters of city to pay over the odds to visit a game of football
• 
  
• Loads more I could say on this but it wont go anywhere

Agree with most of that. Just on Matchday tickets,as a buyer, I don't expect to pay less than a SC holders,and doubt the SC holders would either so the £30/£40 cap wouldn't work.Maybe something like the price of that seat to a SC holder + £10 would work.
Good to see a post with decent proposals to talk around not just complaints though.

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

WTF !!! WOW thats disgraceful.

It is disgraceful Oakie. Are the people who are getting abused reporting it? I fucking hope so.

 

[pride in battle]

I have only ever seen people roasting tourists when they jump up and shout when our opponents score, fueling what?

Hatred, loads on here slagging 'tourists'