Rock Evolution – The History of Rock & Roll - 1985 - (page 203)

I've listened to a couple of hours of the playlist and see it's easy to overrate songs :) I'll do my best to ensure any of my future recommendations to the playlist come with more justification than "this is a song I like". Here is a couple of thoughts:

1) This thread is great at picking out songs you should know. For example Ride a White Swan by TRex and early Bowie stuff. These are songs that are often referenced in various places but I wasn't particularly familiar with them.
2) This thread is great at highlighting super famous bands that I've never got round to listening to. To my knowledge this is the first time I've listened to the Grateful Dead for example. Also Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - I know a version of the song Our House from an old advert but to my knowledge have never heard any song of theirs.
3) we overrate this period. Controversial but to me a lot of the stuff sounds the same. It all sounds very listenable even the stuff that is recorded "poorly" and it has a classic rock sound - but that's largely because we've designated this sound as being "classic". Even the worse song on here is better than Saturday Night by Whigfield but it's an unfair comparison. You have to compare the best of the periods.
4) A lot of the songs feel quite sincere. For example the first time I heard "Suicide is Painless" was by the Manic Street Preachers - the version on the playlist is very similar but has a different feel - the Manics have a sneering quality. This may be me hearing stuff that isn't there but there is a sweetness in most of the songs - the harmonies and stuff are what you'd expect and even in the heavier stuff there aren't many times the tone of the song gets too ugly. Some of this may be hindsight - judging by some comments on here this was loud and abrasive at the time but now it feels kind of sweet.
5) This got me thinking about if songs such as Suicide is Painless or Lola would be written today - definitely not with the same level of sweetness and I don't think quite as directly.
 
mrbelfry said:
I've listened to a couple of hours of the playlist and see it's easy to overrate songs :) I'll do my best to ensure any of my future recommendations to the playlist come with more justification than "this is a song I like". Here is a couple of thoughts:

1) This thread is great at picking out songs you should know. For example Ride a White Swan by TRex and early Bowie stuff. These are songs that are often referenced in various places but I wasn't particularly familiar with them.
2) This thread is great at highlighting super famous bands that I've never got round to listening to. To my knowledge this is the first time I've listened to the Grateful Dead for example. Also Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - I know a version of the song Our House from an old advert but to my knowledge have never heard any song of theirs.
3) we overrate this period. Controversial but to me a lot of the stuff sounds the same. It all sounds very listenable even the stuff that is recorded "poorly" and it has a classic rock sound - but that's largely because we've designated this sound as being "classic". Even the worse song on here is better than Saturday Night by Whigfield but it's an unfair comparison. You have to compare the best of the periods.
4) A lot of the songs feel quite sincere. For example the first time I heard "Suicide is Painless" was by the Manic Street Preachers - the version on the playlist is very similar but has a different feel - the Manics have a sneering quality. This may be me hearing stuff that isn't there but there is a sweetness in most of the songs - the harmonies and stuff are what you'd expect and even in the heavier stuff there aren't many times the tone of the song gets too ugly. Some of this may be hindsight - judging by some comments on here this was loud and abrasive at the time but now it feels kind of sweet.
5) This got me thinking about if songs such as Suicide is Painless or Lola would be written today - definitely not with the same level of sweetness and I don't think quite as directly.
Click to expand...

I am sure most people could be accused of overrating things that they like. However, I don’t think the period of time we are in on this journey through music is overrated. Every period had plenty of crap in it but both the quality of the best music and the progress of rock music in the period we are in is a combination that makes it very a special in my view.

Interesting that you find a lot of the music sounds the same. For sure a lot has a 70’s kind of sound in 1970 but some still has more of a 60’s vibe. However, beyond that, I hear a lot of difference. People often lump the likes of Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin together but to my ears, each has its own unmistakable sound and style.

I think each era has its own sound, or sounds (depending to some degree on the genre) and I confess the music of today largely leaves me cold and does sound the same to my ears but if I was16, that perhaps wouldn’t be the case.

Your point about “sweetness” is also a good one. Partly this may due to recording techniques. I find modern often sounds almost synthetic. I am not expert enough on the subject, I’ve not been in a recording studio since the early 80’s but again, I do think part of what gives each era its sound is down to how things were recorded and the state of technology at the time.

Most people on this thread will know I love heavy rock but, even there, it is the older stuff, which is far less ugly or harsh. I don’t like most modern heavy metal bands.

I also think it is a cultural thing and that music reflects the times. Lola wouldn’t get written today as it’s not woke! Hard to see someone coming up with something like “Suicide is Painless” either and it certainly wouldn’t have the same sound, which is so evocative of a time, place and TV show that it instantly transports me back in time.
 
mrbelfry said:
I've listened to a couple of hours of the playlist and see it's easy to overrate songs :) I'll do my best to ensure any of my future recommendations to the playlist come with more justification than "this is a song I like". Here is a couple of thoughts:

1) This thread is great at picking out songs you should know. For example Ride a White Swan by TRex and early Bowie stuff. These are songs that are often referenced in various places but I wasn't particularly familiar with them.
Click to expand...
I too applaud the more unfamiliar tracks from TMWSTW other than that song as a single was not an album I'm as familiar with. I don't think US FM stations over the years have played anything but that track off of this. Quite a shame, but it wouldn't be until the string of Bowie albums in 1971 where he really got on the map of success in the US.

mrbelfry said:
2) This thread is great at highlighting super famous bands that I've never got round to listening to. To my knowledge this is the first time I've listened to the Grateful Dead for example.
Click to expand...
There's a part of me that envies you, only from airplay overload from them on things here. I've never "gotten" the Grateful Dead level of fandom, but there's a lot of boxes I know I don't check in not really following them too. FM overplay on the 2 songs in particular here don't help.

mrbelfry said:
Also Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young - I know a version of the song Our House from an old advert but to my knowledge have never heard any song of theirs.
Click to expand...
Wow, you have missed out there, but there will be more to hear soon.

mrbelfry said:
3) we overrate this period. Controversial but to me a lot of the stuff sounds the same. It all sounds very listenable even the stuff that is recorded "poorly" and it has a classic rock sound - but that's largely because we've designated this sound as being "classic". Even the worse song on here is better than Saturday Night by Whigfield but it's an unfair comparison. You have to compare the best of the periods.
Click to expand...
While I think the music does sound dated by the time, I do think it was based on where things were too. I actually found a good number of newness with the songs here, as the depth of bands coming out with new stand-out material is reaching out. Go back to the mid-60s and there are a few bands dominating the sound of the time, at least the inventive songs. Here, we've got plenty of examples to me of bands reaching out with some iconic music that has lasted through the years.
mrbelfry said:
4) A lot of the songs feel quite sincere. For example the first time I heard "Suicide is Painless" was by the Manic Street Preachers - the version on the playlist is very similar but has a different feel - the Manics have a sneering quality. This may be me hearing stuff that isn't there but there is a sweetness in most of the songs - the harmonies and stuff are what you'd expect and even in the heavier stuff there aren't many times the tone of the song gets too ugly. Some of this may be hindsight - judging by some comments on here this was loud and abrasive at the time but now it feels kind of sweet.
Click to expand...
One of the best movie songs and later TV series intro of all time, from my favourite childhood TV show.
 
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I agree with @OB1 on this - I don't think the music from this era is over-rated. I think it's really difficult to justify that position. A lot of the music we hear today has direct roots in the music created from around 65-75. As a result, it can't be overrated can it?

I'll be slightly flexible with my years, but generally from 65-75 I would say these years were absolutely crucial in shaping modern music. Here's why:

Any band who writes and performs their own material has to thank The Beatles and Beach Boys for creating that idea. Before it, you sang other peoples songs.

Any band that plays metal, heavy rock, blues rock, garage rock, pop rock - that was invented in the late 60s/early 70s. Black Sabbath and Deep Purple specifically invent heavy rock/heavy metal. Led Zeppelin show us that it's perfectly possible to put folk, blues and rock albums together. Yes and Steely show us that jazz and rock blend together really well. The Moody Blues create concept albums with classical music. The idea that you can blend other musical genres into 'pop' music is created. This in itself is transformational!

Any rock band that plays 'crazy' solos can almost certainly be traced back to the likes of Hendrix. Any rock band playing the big riffs - You Really Got Me by The Kinks, Smoke On The Water etc.

The singer-songwriters were born in 1970 or so. I would be very surprised if any female singer-songwriter was not hugely influenced by Joni Mitchell. Bob Dylan in particular expands the concept of what can be written about in a pop song. Joni Mitchell makes incredibly personal songs and again expand songs from being simple 'I love you' pop songs in the early 60s to songs like The Times They Are A-Changing, Woodstock, Big Yellow Taxi etc.

Funk which massively influences hip hop/rap today was born in the late 60s/early 70s. Moving the emphasis of songs onto the 'groove' and beat has a colossal impact on dance music. A lot of music today emphasises the beat/groove above all else.

Disco comes in the mid 70s grows into club culture, House Music, Acid House. Northern Soul records from the 60s and 70s help to create 'club culture' too. Again, if nothing else this alone is worthy of note as dance music is one of the major genres around today and the effect of club culture on cities like Manchester is incalculable.

In the mid 70s bands like Tangerine Dream created the first ambient albums like Phaedra and Rubycon. Kraftwerk will make the first fully 'computerised' music influencing every
every band who uses synths in the years after.

The idea of using the studio to make the album was pretty much invented by The Beatles and Beach Boys. Huge productions from Phil Spector created a new sound and nowadays we expect albums to have slick productions and a lot have big, complex productions. Listen to how slick the production is on albums by Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd and The Eagles compared the ones by Elvis etc.

Fashion, haircuts, clothing and music were all combined in the 60s (ok the 50s too) but by the 70s your hair and clothing tell you what music you are into.

The idea of music and social protest for the modern teenager is pretty much invented in the 60s.

I'll be honest, you can say you don't like the music and that's fine because it's personal taste. But you surely have to accept that the music from era has had such a profound impact on everything else that came after it? As such it can't be overrated can it? Even in 1970 alone the creation of heavy metal and singer-songwriters is something worthy of recognition.

Of course there will be crap singles, albums and bands but the high points in this era have influenced the next 50/60/70 years of music.

I do agree that some of it is poorly recorded, but also we have to remember that 60 years they didn't all have access to the same recording technology we do now. I also think that thanks to 'classic/retro' stations a lot of songs from this era are played to death and taken out of context. One example which I really dislike is when Smooth play the title track from "What's Goin On" by Marvin Gaye - it just sounds 'nice', but it's really a chapter from a book. Similar for "The Night" on The Moody Blues Days Of Future Passed, we lose a lot of context.

It will genuinely be interesting to see how music from this era will compare to when we hit the 2000s. I will be surprised if anyone can make the case that - to choose a random year - 2007 is as good as 1967 or 1977 for example.
 
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GoatersLeftShin said:
I agree with @OB1 on this - I don't think the music from this era is over-rated. I think it's really difficult to justify that position. A lot of the music we hear today has direct roots in the music created from around 65-75. As a result, it can't be overrated can it?

I'll be slightly flexible with my years, but generally from 65-75 I would say these years were absolutely crucial in shaping modern music. Here's why:

Any band who writes and performs their own material has to thank The Beatles and Beach Boys for creating that idea. Before it, you sang other peoples songs.

Any band that plays metal, heavy rock, blues rock, garage rock, pop rock - that was invented in the late 60s/early 70s. Black Sabbath and Deep Purple specifically invent heavy rock/heavy metal. Led Zeppelin show us that it's perfectly possible to put folk, blues and rock albums together. Yes and Steely show us that jazz and rock blend together really well. The Moody Blues create concept albums with classical music. The idea that you can blend other musical genres into 'pop' music is created. This in itself is transformational!

Any rock band that plays 'crazy' solos can almost certainly be traced back to the likes of Hendrix. Any rock band playing the big riffs - You Really Got Me by The Kinks, Smoke On The Water etc.

The singer-songwriters were born in 1970 or so. I would be very surprised if any female singer-songwriter was not hugely influenced by Joni Mitchell. Bob Dylan in particular expands the concept of what can be written about in a pop song. Joni Mitchell makes incredibly personal songs and again expand songs from being simple 'I love you' pop songs in the early 60s to songs like The Times They Are A-Changing, Woodstock, Big Yellow Taxi etc.

Funk which massively influences hip hop/rap today was born in the late 60s/early 70s. Moving the emphasis of songs onto the 'groove' and beat has a colossal impact on dance music. A lot of music today emphasises the beat/groove above all else.

Disco comes in the mid 70s grows into club culture, House Music, Acid House. Northern Soul records from the 60s and 70s help to create 'club culture' too. Again, if nothing else this alone is worthy of note as dance music is one of the major genres around today and the effect of club culture on cities like Manchester is incalculable.

In the mid 70s bands like Tangerine Dream created the first ambient albums like Phaedra and Rubycon. Kraftwerk will make the first fully 'computerised' music influencing every
every band who uses synths in the years after.

The idea of using the studio to make the album was pretty much invented by The Beatles and Beach Boys. Huge productions from Phil Spector created a new sound and nowadays we expect albums to have slick productions and a lot have big, complex productions. Listen to how slick the production is on albums by Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd and The Eagles compared the ones by Elvis etc.

Fashion, haircuts, clothing and music were all combined in the 60s (ok the 50s too) but by the 70s your hair and clothing tell you what music you are into.

The idea of music and social protest for the modern teenager is pretty much invented in the 60s.

I'll be honest, you can say you don't like the music and that's fine because it's personal taste. But you surely have to accept that the music from era has had such a profound impact on everything else that came after it? As such it can't be overrated can it? Even in 1970 alone the creation of heavy metal and singer-songwriters is something worthy of recognition.

Of course there will be crap singles, albums and bands but the high points in this era have influenced the next 50/60/70 years of music.

I do agree that some of it is poorly recorded, but also we have to remember that 60 years they didn't all have access to the same recording technology we do now. I also think that thanks to 'classic/retro' stations a lot of songs from this era are played to death and taken out of context. One example which I really dislike is when Smooth play the title track from "What's Goin On" by Marvin Gaye - it just sounds 'nice', but it's really a chapter from a book. Similar for "The Night" on The Moody Blues Days Of Future Passed, we lose a lot of context.

It will genuinely be interesting to see how music from this era will compare to when we hit the 2000s. I will be surprised if anyone can make the case that - to choose a random year - 2007 is as good as 1967 or 1977 for example.
Click to expand...
That’s a great summary of the influence that music from the 60’s and 70’s has had.
 
OB1 said:
I am sure most people could be accused of overrating things that they like. However, I don’t think the period of time we are in on this journey through music is overrated. Every period had plenty of crap in it but both the quality of the best music and the progress of rock music in the period we are in is a combination that makes it very a special in my view.

Interesting that you find a lot of the music sounds the same. For sure a lot has a 70’s kind of sound in 1970 but some still has more of a 60’s vibe. However, beyond that, I hear a lot of difference. People often lump the likes of Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin together but to my ears, each has its own unmistakable sound and style.

I think each era has its own sound, or sounds (depending to some degree on the genre) and I confess the music of today largely leaves me cold and does sound the same to my ears but if I was16, that perhaps wouldn’t be the case.

Your point about “sweetness” is also a good one. Partly this may due to recording techniques. I find modern often sounds almost synthetic. I am not expert enough on the subject, I’ve not been in a recording studio since the early 80’s but again, I do think part of what gives each era its sound is down to how things were recorded and the state of technology at the time.

Most people on this thread will know I love heavy rock but, even there, it is the older stuff, which is far less ugly or harsh. I don’t like most modern heavy metal bands.

I also think it is a cultural thing and that music reflects the times. Lola wouldn’t get written today as it’s not woke! Hard to see someone coming up with something like “Suicide is Painless” either and it certainly wouldn’t have the same sound, which is so evocative of a time, place and TV show that it instantly transports me back in time.
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I think its fair to say that you more you listen to music the more you're able to discern the differences and indeed you can normally tell all those three bands apart. But it's all broadly in the same kind of vibe (I guess this is a genre thing and I need to figure out what I'm trying to get at and articulate it better). There are a lot of long songs and noodling on guitar etc and alot of the vocalists have the same gruff voices (or a Bolan, Bowie thing) - i guess a lot of it is being drawn from the same inspirations. And i'm possibly being a little unkind or more likely trying to hard to be a contrarian.

I think you comment about modern music is a better articulation of what I was trying to say. This sounds amazing to you because you engaged with it at a young age and you fell in love. Now this becomes the lens through which you hear everything else. You get transported back to a time, place and tv show but I don't have that same experience with Suicide is Painless (i hear the manics and I never watched MASH - it was what my parents watched (although i don't think they did)). I guess though that's part of the joy of music - it can put us back in places and modes but to confidently say this is the pinnacle of music because of that is a purely subjective move. @GoatersLeftShin did go someway to an objective argument though.

Soooo in summary. great response although I still think some of the songs on the 8 hour playlist (including the ones i nominated so shame on me) are simply good or ok and not necessarily era defining. Although something like the Star Spangled Banner is both unpleasant to listen to and era defining so what do i know?
 
Black&White&BlueMoon Town said:
While I think the music does sound dated by the time, I do think it was based on where things were too. I actually found a good number of newness with the songs here, as the depth of bands coming out with new stand-out material is reaching out. Go back to the mid-60s and there are a few bands dominating the sound of the time, at least the inventive songs. Here, we've got plenty of examples to me of bands reaching out with some iconic music that has lasted through the years.
Click to expand...
There was a lot i was unfamiliar with - so maybe it's only lasted in the collective memories of old people looking back with fond memories of their first kiss or whatever :) I suspect that is the case for most music though - it has to connect with a time or place for it to be truly memorable. I dunked on Whigfield but I'm sure there will be a generation of people that will hear that in 40 years time and say "they don't make music like they used to"
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
I agree with @OB1 on this - I don't think the music from this era is over-rated. I think it's really difficult to justify that position. A lot of the music we hear today has direct roots in the music created from around 65-75. As a result, it can't be overrated can it?

I'll be slightly flexible with my years, but generally from 65-75 I would say these years were absolutely crucial in shaping modern music. Here's why:

Any band who writes and performs their own material has to thank The Beatles and Beach Boys for creating that idea. Before it, you sang other peoples songs.

Any band that plays metal, heavy rock, blues rock, garage rock, pop rock - that was invented in the late 60s/early 70s. Black Sabbath and Deep Purple specifically invent heavy rock/heavy metal. Led Zeppelin show us that it's perfectly possible to put folk, blues and rock albums together. Yes and Steely show us that jazz and rock blend together really well. The Moody Blues create concept albums with classical music. The idea that you can blend other musical genres into 'pop' music is created. This in itself is transformational!

Any rock band that plays 'crazy' solos can almost certainly be traced back to the likes of Hendrix. Any rock band playing the big riffs - You Really Got Me by The Kinks, Smoke On The Water etc.

The singer-songwriters were born in 1970 or so. I would be very surprised if any female singer-songwriter was not hugely influenced by Joni Mitchell. Bob Dylan in particular expands the concept of what can be written about in a pop song. Joni Mitchell makes incredibly personal songs and again expand songs from being simple 'I love you' pop songs in the early 60s to songs like The Times They Are A-Changing, Woodstock, Big Yellow Taxi etc.

Funk which massively influences hip hop/rap today was born in the late 60s/early 70s. Moving the emphasis of songs onto the 'groove' and beat has a colossal impact on dance music. A lot of music today emphasises the beat/groove above all else.

Disco comes in the mid 70s grows into club culture, House Music, Acid House. Northern Soul records from the 60s and 70s help to create 'club culture' too. Again, if nothing else this alone is worthy of note as dance music is one of the major genres around today and the effect of club culture on cities like Manchester is incalculable.

In the mid 70s bands like Tangerine Dream created the first ambient albums like Phaedra and Rubycon. Kraftwerk will make the first fully 'computerised' music influencing every
every band who uses synths in the years after.

The idea of using the studio to make the album was pretty much invented by The Beatles and Beach Boys. Huge productions from Phil Spector created a new sound and nowadays we expect albums to have slick productions and a lot have big, complex productions. Listen to how slick the production is on albums by Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd and The Eagles compared the ones by Elvis etc.

Fashion, haircuts, clothing and music were all combined in the 60s (ok the 50s too) but by the 70s your hair and clothing tell you what music you are into.

The idea of music and social protest for the modern teenager is pretty much invented in the 60s.

I'll be honest, you can say you don't like the music and that's fine because it's personal taste. But you surely have to accept that the music from era has had such a profound impact on everything else that came after it? As such it can't be overrated can it? Even in 1970 alone the creation of heavy metal and singer-songwriters is something worthy of recognition.

Of course there will be crap singles, albums and bands but the high points in this era have influenced the next 50/60/70 years of music.

I do agree that some of it is poorly recorded, but also we have to remember that 60 years they didn't all have access to the same recording technology we do now. I also think that thanks to 'classic/retro' stations a lot of songs from this era are played to death and taken out of context. One example which I really dislike is when Smooth play the title track from "What's Goin On" by Marvin Gaye - it just sounds 'nice', but it's really a chapter from a book. Similar for "The Night" on The Moody Blues Days Of Future Passed, we lose a lot of context.

It will genuinely be interesting to see how music from this era will compare to when we hit the 2000s. I will be surprised if anyone can make the case that - to choose a random year - 2007 is as good as 1967 or 1977 for example.
Click to expand...
Every book ever written has words you can find in a dictionary but i wouldn't want to read a dictionary for fun. It's useful for etymology or whatever but to say books peaked in whatever year the oxford english dictionary was first published because every other book uses words is fallacious. No need to critique this argument - i know it's a bad one :)

I think to a certain extent (and I'm going to find this hard to justify) that there is a certain pavlovian response in play. We consider this era to be great (and there was certainly innovation in it) because we are programmed to believe it is so. And as such bands being influenced by it is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. We also become immune to innovation as we get older. For example TikTok is a big player in how music is produced and consumed but most of us older people consider it stupid and inferior. this current generation not so much.

My wife would also largely argue that 2007 is a better year for music than 1967 but she doesnt really like the Beatles etc
 
mrbelfry said:
Although something like the Star Spangled Banner is both unpleasant to listen to and era defining so what do i know?
Click to expand...

I think the reason it's unpleasant to listen to is that it's almost holding up a mirror to what Americans were doing - dropping bombs and killing people in Vietnam. It's also played to young people who were both doing this and also the victims of the war too. There's no words in his playing but the way he mixes from the National Anthem into the sounds is quite incredible and I'm pretty confident in saying that it hadn't been done before, certainly with an electric guitar. This is a guy who was using feedback as the instrument - again how often do you hear it on records?

It's also performed at Woodstock (from memory) which also adds to the mystique of the event. Really you could say it's an iconic moment in music at the most iconic festival.

Also, I just don't think you would hear that done nowadays which adds to it's authenticity. This was an artist who made a statement. Today if someone like - for example - Noel Gallagher had the ability to do it, it would almost certainly be followed with apologies and other nonsense.
 
mrbelfry said:
Every book ever written has words you can find in a dictionary but i wouldn't want to read a dictionary for fun. It's useful for etymology or whatever but to say books peaked in whatever year the oxford english dictionary was first published because every other book uses words is fallacious. No need to critique this argument - i know it's a bad one :)

I think to a certain extent (and I'm going to find this hard to justify) that there is a certain pavlovian response in play. We consider this era to be great (and there was certainly innovation in it) because we are programmed to believe it is so. And as such bands being influenced by it is kind of a self fulfilling prophecy. We also become immune to innovation as we get older. For example TikTok is a big player in how music is produced and consumed but most of us older people consider it stupid and inferior. this current generation not so much.

My wife would also largely argue that 2007 is a better year for music than 1967 but she doesnt really like the Beatles etc
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a Pavlovian response. All the music I wrote about was made before I was born. I'd be interested to see what group of bands/musicians from 2000-2025 could seriously be discussed in the same bracket as Bob Dylan, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, Yes, Steely Dan, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Elton John, Chic, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Free, Bob Marley, The Bee Gees, The Eagles, Paul Simon/Simon & Garfunkel, James Brown - these are all from the 1965-75 decade and I've missed a lot of other bands out. The influence of these artists cannot be underestimated.

Whether I listen to music on Spotify, Tiktok, Youtube, Amazon Music - wherever, good music is good music. I don't think it's inferior but I haven't managed to find any music with the catchiness, melodic content, lyrical cleverness that matches the music from this era. I've found lots of good new music, without question and lots of good albums but - for whatever reason - it's not as good as a lot of music from the artists I've listed above.

Bear in mind I'm no musical snob, I'm happy to listen to literally anything providing it's got something catchy about it! :)
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
I don't think it's a Pavlovian response. All the music I wrote about was made before I was born. I'd be interested to see what group of bands/musicians from 2000-2025 could seriously be discussed in the same bracket as Bob Dylan, The Beatles, The Beach Boys, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Jimi Hendrix, Joni Mitchell, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, Yes, Steely Dan, David Bowie, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, Elton John, Chic, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Free, Bob Marley, The Bee Gees, The Eagles, Paul Simon/Simon & Garfunkel, James Brown - these are all from the 1965-75 decade and I've missed a lot of other bands out. The influence of these artists cannot be underestimated.

Whether I listen to music on Spotify, Tiktok, Youtube, Amazon Music - wherever, good music is good music. I don't think it's inferior but I haven't managed to find any music with the catchiness, melodic content, lyrical cleverness that matches the music from this era. I've found lots of good new music, without question and lots of good albums but - for whatever reason - it's not as good as a lot of music from the artists I've listed above.

Bear in mind I'm no musical snob, I'm happy to listen to literally anything providing it's got something catchy about it! :)
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Ha I feel like I'm about to dragged into arguing all those bands are rubbish. That's no my intent and not what I believe. It was an innovative decade for sure but it's easy to appear innovative when you're the first :)

If you're talking about songs with lyrical cleverness without referencing all of hip hop then you're obviously hearing something in Obla Di Obla Da that I don't :)
 
GoatersLeftShin said:
I think the reason it's unpleasant to listen to is that it's almost holding up a mirror to what Americans were doing - dropping bombs and killing people in Vietnam. It's also played to young people who were both doing this and also the victims of the war too. There's no words in his playing but the way he mixes from the National Anthem into the sounds is quite incredible and I'm pretty confident in saying that it hadn't been done before, certainly with an electric guitar. This is a guy who was using feedback as the instrument - again how often do you hear it on records?

It's also performed at Woodstock (from memory) which also adds to the mystique of the event. Really you could say it's an iconic moment in music at the most iconic festival.

Also, I just don't think you would hear that done nowadays which adds to it's authenticity. This was an artist who made a statement. Today if someone like - for example - Noel Gallagher had the ability to do it, it would almost certainly be followed with apologies and other nonsense.
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It is an iconic moment / version, which is why I suggested it.
 
mrbelfry said:
I guess though that's part of the joy of music - it can put us back in places and modes but to confidently say this is the pinnacle of music because of that is a purely subjective move. @GoatersLeftShin did go someway to an objective argument though.
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I was not putting that forward as the case for anything. It was the progression and quality that @GoatersLeftShin set out that I was thinking of but did not go into to detail on.
 
OB1 said:
It is an iconic moment / version, which is why I suggested it.
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I agree it's iconic and wasn't questioning it's inclusion. I'm just arguing it's not good ;) it's iconicness is more to do with time and place than the actual notes of performance or whatever. Is that performance any more politically and societally charged than the "Like A Prayer" video or Graceland, or Killing in the Name Of or whatever Kendrick Lamar is doing (not an listener of his stuff but everyone talks about the weight of his material).

In any event the more I try to explain the worse job I'm doing and I'm appearing more critical than I intended to be. I enjoy most of what's on the playlist. And ultimately I'm probably wrong :) thanks for the pushback to everyone who commented
 
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