President Trump

The perfect fumble said:
This is a good post.

The 1st World War is complex, had Belgium not resisted and instead allowed the Germans to steamroll their way to Paris, it wouldn't have mattered very much what the Brits did, and certainly not the Yanks. At key moments in that war every one of the allies, particularly France, played a pivotal role, with the exception of the Americans. It was the threat of what the Americans might do had the war continued that played a far greater role than anything they actually did.

What the Germans did in occupied Belgium during the 1st World War was appalling, the mass killings, the slave labour, the deportations. Not enough people know the privations the Belgians suffered during that shameful period.
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Albert I basically could have led the Germans trough and Saved Belgium from much of that ordeal, still he's generally highly regarded by Belgians even if he brought the Germans onto us, a national hero really. I suppose that in retrospect its acknowledged that it was the honorable thing to do. And yes Belgium had good friends upon which she could count too.

Our troops went to the front knowing they couldnt win, the only thing they could do is stick around as long as they could to delay the Germans in the knowledge that help would arrive eventually. It wasnt pointless but it was neither a glorious affair. What is hard to get, as a Belgian, is to have that nationalistic pride as some sort of product of the glory brought by war and victory. I had grandparents and great grandparents who fought or suffered during the war and they explained that their greatest desire was that their children and grandchildren would be saved the horrors of war. I was born and raised in Ypres in between the ever present scars of war, most of my family is from this region. The theme aroud here tends to be remembrance for the fallen, the many young boys that never got to live their life to the fullest, the horrible new wapons of modernizd warfare they were subjected too. Not things like nationalistic pride or glory or reverance for bravery and such.

As a Belgian, i think i can spot the facist in Trump when i see it. He wants to glorify nationalism and war in a typical facist promotion of interventionism and expansionism. Its scary shit, the type that already has you think to Canada right away and have you guessing "surely he cant be serious" when nevertheless his actions are known to be rash and uncontrollable. And he's the type of inherit lying bullshitter who will act as if US are "the heroic saviours" when he all the same he will argue that Ukraine is none of their concern while extracting some unequal minerals deal from them, just as much as he will blame Biden for anything that so obviously is his fault but surely when a reporter would call him out for his lies said reporter has to be made aware that he has to tow the propaganda line or it will be a detriment to his carreer. The truth doesnt matter to Trump, only usefull narratives do regardless if they are obvious bs. Next up is a millitary parade, because afcourse it is. Step by step facisization is it not? And one that seems to be completely out of Putins handbook, nothing like re-writing the national narrative on war and glory withought any shame for revisionist lies you'd introduce as a step to all your justifications.
 
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WT86 said:
Indeed. Who can forget Belgium's immediate entry into the war, the Belgian sacrifices at the Bulge and on Peleliu, the timeless images of the Belgian flag rising over Paris and Iwo Jima, the tens of billions in free materiel provided by Belgian industry. Thanks for sharing this unbiased and mainstream view of WWII.
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I think you misunderstand his post.

It's in response to Trump's arrogant claims, his usual "the best", "the first", "the biggest". This hurts European sensibilities in four ways.

Firstly it downplays the sacrifices of others, secondly it diminishes America's very real sacrifices and amazing achievements by boastful overreach, claiming credit for everything else and the kitchen sink.

Thirdly in Northern Europe there's a tradition of quiet modesty about ones achievements, we find it distasteful if you feel the need to shout about them from the roof tops, it creates a feeling that maybe your achievements weren't so great after all.

And fourthly small countries are usually on the end of a kicking by big countries. Great countries can achieve great things in no small part because they are great in size, population, resources and so on, it is not a guarantee of greatness and there are odd exceptions in history but in the end big tends to win out.

Belgium is not big, it is not great, the Belgian flag will never fly over Paris, it never flew on Iwo Jima or the Moon for that matter. One day the Chinese flag might fly on Mars, then you may get a taste of what it's like to be Belgian, or Dutch or British, when President Xi does a Donald Trump and boastfully dismisses Americans as also rans, except he won't of course, because that's not what the Chinese do.
 
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FlemishDuck said:
Albert I basically could have led the Germans trough and Saved Belgium from much of that ordeal, still he's generally highly regarded by Belgians even if he brought the Germans onto us, a national hero really. I suppose that in retrospect its acknowledged that it was the honorable thing to do. And yes Belgium had good friends upon which she could count too.

Our troops went to the front knowing they couldnt win, the only thing they could do is stick around as long as they could to delay the Germans in the knowledge that help would arrive eventually. It wasnt pointless but it was neither a glorious affair. What is hard to get, as a Belgian, is to have that nationalistic pride as some sort of product of the glory brought by war and victory. I had grandparents and great grandparents who fought or suffered during the war and they explained that their greatest desire was that their children and grandchildren would be saved the horrors of war. I was born and raised in Ypres in between the ever present scars of war, most of my family is from this region. The theme aroud here tends to be remembrance for the fallen, the many young boys that never got to live their life to the fullest, the horrible new wapons of modernizd warfare they were subjected too. Not things like nationalistic pride or glory or reverance for bravery and such.

As a Belgian, i think i can spot the facist in Trump when i see it. He wants to glorify nationalism and war in a typical facist promotion of interventionism and expansionism. Its scary shit, the type that already has you think to Canada right away and have you guessing "surely he cant be serious" when nevertheless his actions are known to be rash and uncontrollable. And he's the type of inherit lying bullshitter who will act as if US are "the heroic saviours" when he all the same he will argue that Ukraine is none of their concern while extracting some unequal minerals deal from them, just as much as he will blame Biden for anything that so obviously is his fault but surely when a reporter would call him out for his lies said reporter has to be made aware that he has to tow the propaganda line or it will be a detriment to his carreer. The truth doesnt matter to Trump, only usefull narratives do regardless if they are obvious bs. Next up is a millitary parade, because afcourse it is. Step by step facisization is it not? And one that seems to be completely out of Putins handbook, nothing like re-writing the national narrative on war and glory withought any shame for revisionist lies you'd introduce as a step to all your justifications.
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Another great post.

I much prefer President Theodore Roosevelt "speak softly and carry a big stick"

There's no doubting American power but she's not omnipotent, Trump talks as if she is and decries the fact she doesn't beat her chest and compel the world to bow in fearful awe of her might.

He's a fascist, but fortunately for the rest of us he's also an idiot.

PS: I've a brass plaque of King Albert on my desk, along with a bust of Kitchener and other miscellaneous 1st World War bric-a-brac.
 
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I think (I hope) the Australian and Canadian elections are extremely important indicators of a slow shift in the direction of travel.

Both featured conservative parties taking a big poll lead, both featured their leaders getting associated with Trump, which then resulted in results quickly flipping in the other direction and returning the centre/centre-left candidates. In both elections, the conservative leaders even lost their seat.

In some western nations Trump's brand is becoming toxic and it is infecting other conservative parties. Even Farage knows he can't go "full Trump" and win a general election, which is why he ended up falling out with Musk.

I'm hoping this results in a push from the more sensible conservative parties out there (ala Germany) in a direction away from Trumpism and back to a more moderate, reasonable and traditional conservative approach. Hitching your party to the Trump bandwagon is starting to look like a death sentence everywhere outside of the US, Russia and maybe places like Hungary.

Kemi Badenoch should be taking notes, but she won't be because she's totally out of her depth and is getting outflanked to the left by Lib Dems and to the right by Reform.
 
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The perfect fumble said:
I think you misunderstand his post.

It's in response to Trump's arrogant claims, his usual "the best", "the first", "the biggest". This hurts European sensibilities in four ways.

Firstly it downplays the sacrifices of others, secondly it diminishes America's very real sacrifices and amazing achievements by boastful overreach, claiming credit for everything else and the kitchen sink.

Thirdly in Northern Europe there's a tradition of quiet modesty about ones achievements, we find it distasteful if you feel the need to shout about them from the roof tops, it creates a feeling that maybe your achievements weren't so great after all.

And fourthly small countries are usually on the end of a kicking by big countries. Great countries can achieve great things in no small part because they are great in size, population, resources and so on, it is not a guarantee of greatness and there are odd exceptions in history but in the end big tends to win out.

Belgium is not big, it is not great, the Belgian flag will never fly over Paris, it never flew on Iwo Jima or the Moon for that matter. One day the Chinese flag might fly on Mars, then you may get a taste of what it's like to be Belgian, or Dutch or British, when President Xi does a Donald Trump and boastfully dismisses Americans as also rans, except he won't of course, because that's not what the Chinese do.
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The response to Trump's idiotic, jingoistic claims about the wars is not equally idiotic, jingoistic claims denigrating American involvement.

Belgium was neutral in WWII until it was invaded. Its military surrendered 18 days later. There was then a small, moderately successful resistance. The Belgians who actually fought deserve respect as anyone who fought for the allies does, but WWII isn't a story of Belgian heroics and American cowardice.

The US had instituted a draft and was providing billions in free materiel well before Pearl Harbor. But yes, it entered the war later than much of Europe. It takes a while to build up political will to send hundreds of thousands of your young men to die on another continent. Belgians might realize that if they had ever done it, but their foreign wars haven largely been about brutalizing people in Africa for financial gain.
 
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WT86 said:
At 2% interest, and the loan was a fraction of what the US gave to the UK outright.
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It’s a weird way of looking at it. We were allies in a war that could have ended with much of the world living under a totalitarian dictatorship. It was in US interest as much as ours to provide armaments to the countries actually fighting the war in exactly the same way it’s in all our interests for Ukraine to be given all the support it needs without trying to extract that country’s natural resources in return.
 
FlemishDuck said:
Albert I basically could have led the Germans trough and Saved Belgium from much of that ordeal, still he's generally highly regarded by Belgians even if he brought the Germans onto us, a national hero really. I suppose that in retrospect its acknowledged that it was the honorable thing to do. And yes Belgium had good friends upon which she could count too.

Our troops went to the front knowing they couldnt win, the only thing they could do is stick around as long as they could to delay the Germans in the knowledge that help would arrive eventually. It wasnt pointless but it was neither a glorious affair. What is hard to get, as a Belgian, is to have that nationalistic pride as some sort of product of the glory brought by war and victory. I had grandparents and great grandparents who fought or suffered during the war and they explained that their greatest desire was that their children and grandchildren would be saved the horrors of war. I was born and raised in Ypres in between the ever present scars of war, most of my family is from this region. The theme aroud here tends to be remembrance for the fallen, the many young boys that never got to live their life to the fullest, the horrible new wapons of modernizd warfare they were subjected too. Not things like nationalistic pride or glory or reverance for bravery and such.

As a Belgian, i think i can spot the facist in Trump when i see it. He wants to glorify nationalism and war in a typical facist promotion of interventionism and expansionism. Its scary shit, the type that already has you think to Canada right away and have you guessing "surely he cant be serious" when nevertheless his actions are known to be rash and uncontrollable. And he's the type of inherit lying bullshitter who will act as if US are "the heroic saviours" when he all the same he will argue that Ukraine is none of their concern while extracting some unequal minerals deal from them, just as much as he will blame Biden for anything that so obviously is his fault but surely when a reporter would call him out for his lies said reporter has to be made aware that he has to tow the propaganda line or it will be a detriment to his carreer. The truth doesnt matter to Trump, only usefull narratives do regardless if they are obvious bs. Next up is a millitary parade, because afcourse it is. Step by step facisization is it not? And one that seems to be completely out of Putins handbook, nothing like re-writing the national narrative on war and glory withought any shame for revisionist lies you'd introduce as a step to all your justifications.
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The Future’s Blue! said:
America is off its tits!
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This is what's brilliant about bluemoon, two posts on the same day on the same subject, poles apart in almost all aspects, one is verbose, one is brief, one is emotional, one is considered, but both are completely accurate, take a bow chaps
 
west didsblue said:
It’s a weird way of looking at it. We were allies in a war that could have ended with much of the world living under a totalitarian dictatorship. It was in US interest as much as ours to provide armaments to the countries actually fighting the war in exactly the same way it’s in all our interests for Ukraine to be given all the support it needs without trying to extract that country’s natural resources in return.
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absolutely this, it's abhorrent for Shitgibbon to treat the war in Ukraine as a business opportunity
 
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