VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

Gorton_Tubster said:
But the alternative is that they put the flag up and stop play which leads to mistakes the other way... Goal chances being denied. In fact I think that's why we are where we are now with the rule.

Personally I think they need to get the auto offside sorted then it's a mute, moot point.
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I understand "marginal", but this was one of the examples that were blindingly obvious I'm afraid, no need to wait, and has caused a serious injury.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
But the alternative is that they put the flag up and stop play which leads to mistakes the other way... Goal chances being denied. In fact I think that's why we are where we are now with the rule.

Personally I think they need to get the auto offside sorted then it's a mute, moot point.
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SAOT will never be sorted. Whether anyone will realise it or not is a different matter .....
 
marco said:
he could have been dead
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And VAR would have killed him. VAR is not only killing the game but it's also putting players at risk by creating intensive sequences in which players are going at full speed whilst offsides (clearly or marginally) trying to score or prevent a goal only for the entire sequence to end up not counting. It's a riot, the whole linos keeping their flags down insanity all just to allow them to *possibly* all VAR to prevent an error and then having them decide whether or not to make the sequence that just occurred count or not after the fact. And for those who say they should only keep their flags down for marginal ones not for clear ones, this is like the paradox of clear and obvious. Once that pandora's box is opened, then it becomes a struggle to determine what's marginal and what's clear. The linos are now terrified of putting the flag up and preventing VAR from *possibly* working in case they make an error. As to whether an offsides is marginal or clear is all subjective and relative. And part of what goes into that is if the player "clearly" offsides is "interfering". The entire way in which they've tried to "litigate" offsides in this manner is completely absurd. Linos need to be able to do their job. They aren't being allowed to due to VAR and it creates neverending problems with play being allowed to go on only for it not to count, but in that moment we're all being misled into thinking that it could count. An example was in that FCB Real Madrid match, where Ian Darke sounded as if a goal was about to be scored, as if it would count if it did. It makes commentators look stupid for pretending as if there wasn't an offsides, but they're seeing play continue, so what they are supposed to do, ignore what's happening then and there? VAR has created this maddening dilemma as it pertains to offsides.
 
Gordyola said:
Eddie suffered twice last season
Everyone agrees its ridiculous that a flag is delayed when its clearly offside, we've also see a Lino flag when the margins are close. It really boils down to what the purpose of the Lino is with respect to offside
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They essentially have no purpose now. They are merely VAR's puppets on a string, to pretend to be making decisions but are merely standing around being told what to do and what not to do, like the main referees are now as well.
 
cleavers said:
On the other side of stupid VAR rules, the Forest player Awoniyi that collided with the goal post at the weekend, and then an offside flag went up, it was quite obviously miles offside, has had to have urgent hospital treatment for an abdominal injury, thanks to the flag not going up, certainly not the first to get injured before a flag, I'm pretty sure we've had on, but can't remember who.

Time for this stupid rule to be rethought (like the whole offside rule for me).
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There's no way to "rethink it". It can't work properly with VAR. It can only work properly without VAR. When are people going to understand that the problem is 100% caused (solely) by VAR.
 
halfcenturyup said:
SAOT will never be sorted. Whether anyone will realise it or not is a different matter .....
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100%

I wish they would've shown the glitchy computer images from that first weekend's implementation of SAOT where the computer said "no" because there were too many players in too close proximity to one another.

A still freeze-frame image that doesn't stop moving as the computer struggles to differentiate between what limbs belongs to who, with one defender with 2 heads 3 arms and 1 leg stood next to an attacker with a keeper growing out of his neck with 7 legs and 1 arm.

It might work for certain instances but so does a linesman (person) and I reckon the linesman didn't cost billions of pounds to develop.
 
Induced coma and intensive care. Fuck me. It looked bad at the time but the type of collision that players just somehow seem to get up from.

How on earth did he end up finishing the game?!

That late flag rule needs fucking off, sharpish. It dared to hurt Jonny Boulders last season as well.

 
skillman said:
Induced coma and intensive care. Fuck me. It looked bad at the time but the type of collision that players just somehow seem to get up from.

How on earth did he end up finishing the game?!

That late flag rule needs fucking off, sharpish. It dared to hurt Jonny Boulders last season as well.

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Shit.

This doesn't only hurt him either, the "advice" to not put up the flag is on the sport, but I'm sure it will be on Sian Massey's concience, especially if anything serios happens to him, because without this "advice" she would surely have flagged, it was that obvious an offside (she probably should have in this case).
 
cleavers said:
I know what the issue is caused by thanks.
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You said :

"Time for this stupid rule to be rethought (like the whole offside rule for me)."

How would one "rethink it" with VAR remaining in place to get around this problem? What I am saying is that the problem is inherent to VAR.

Lets think it through. If they do away with the "linos keeping their flags down problem" then you "interfere" with a possible corrective "outcome" of a VAR review. If a lino puts his flag up and it turns out that it was in error, then there is no way that VAR could then "retify" the situation as in their minds the situation would need to have played out as it would have "just in case". Of course this way of thinking is antithetical to how football works, how it was designed, etc. But essentially they need for linos to keep their flags down to allow VAR to work, or in the way that they want it to work. If the linos get back to doing their job, all of a sudden VAR has a problem because then it can't correct errors in their minds and they have so much invested in everything that would effectively render VAR useless in that regard.

So while I wholly agree with your sentiment, the "stupid rule" as it were, or merely the inherent disruptive influence of how VAR needed it to be changed, for VAR to work, it essentially "broke" the rule as it was prior to VAR, which had been working just fine for generations.

So the idea of rethinking it again, from the same people who rethought it to begin with which got us to this point, is maybe a tad scary to think of how they, the people who broke it in the first place, might rethink it in trying to improve it.

I'm trying to remind you of the underlying conundrum in how this could be rethought while having VAR in place. But if you have any ideas please let us know. See the VARers mentality as it pretains to "continuity" is fundamentally diferent than ours, as in the fans. They think that disturbances to the flow are fine as long as the sequences between their interruptions can be pieced together like a jigsaw puzzle as it the match itself is a film in post processing.

I'm trying to hammer home that VAR is inherently hostile to the match and as long as this elephant remains in the room, on the football pitch, etc I don't see how this problem is remedied by further rethinking. But if you have any suggestions or ideas on how this could be effectively rethought within the VAR framework, or without, please let us know.
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
You said :

"Time for this stupid rule to be rethought (like the whole offside rule for me)."

How would one "rethink it" with VAR remaining in place to get around this problem? What I am saying is that the problem is inherent to VAR.

Lets think it through. If they do away with the "linos keeping their flags down problem" then you "interfere" with a possible corrective "outcome" of a VAR review. If a lino puts his flag up and it turns out that it was in error, then there is no way that VAR could then "retify" the situation as in their minds the situation would need to have played out as it would have "just in case". Of course this way of thinking is antithetical to how football works, how it was designed, etc. But essentially they need for linos to keep their flags down to allow VAR to work, or in the way that they want it to work. If the linos get back to doing their job, all of a sudden VAR has a problem because then it can't correct errors in their minds and they have so much invested in everything that would effectively render VAR useless in that regard.

So while I wholly agree with your sentiment, the "stupid rule" as it were, or merely the inherent disruptive influence of how VAR needed it to be changed, for VAR to work, it essentially "broke" the rule as it was prior to VAR, which had been working just fine for generations.

So the idea of rethinking it again, from the same people who rethought it to begin with which got us to this point, is maybe a tad scary to think of how they, the people who broke it in the first place, might rethink it in trying to improve it.

I'm trying to remind you of the underlying conundrum in how this could be rethought while having VAR in place. But if you have any ideas please let us know. See the VARers mentality as it pretains to "continuity" is fundamentally diferent than ours, as in the fans. They think that disturbances to the flow are fine as long as the sequences between their interruptions can be pieced together like a jigsaw puzzle as it the match itself is a film in post processing.

I'm trying to hammer home that VAR is inherently hostile to the match and as long as this elephant remains in the room, on the football pitch, etc I don't see how this problem is remedied by further rethinking. But if you have any suggestions or ideas on how this could be effectively rethought within the VAR framework, or without, please let us know.
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Spectacularly misunderstood my post, concentrating on a single word.

Even if VAR continues for offside, I think the whole offside thing needs to be revised (back to before VAR for me).

This lad is now in intensive care because the assistant referee didn't put her flag up for an absolutely obvious offside, because of stupid "advice" to the officials.

I hope for her sake he recovers, because right or wrong, she will be seriously affected by her none decision, long before the incident.
 
cleavers said:
Shit.

This doesn't only hurt him either, the "advice" to not put up the flag is on the sport, but I'm sure it will be on Sian Massey's concience, especially if anything serios happens to him, because without this "advice" she would surely have flagged, it was that obvious an offside (she probably should have in this case).
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And that is what will happen. PGMOL won't say there is a problem with the rules, they will blame Massey for not putting the flag up when, in their interpretation of the rules, she should have.

If that happens, I hope all officials go on strike until this ridiculous rule is sorted. Everybody with at least half a brain knew someone would eventually get seriously injured under this idiotic rule. And now it's happened. Surprise, sur-fucking-prise.

So there is a choice from this weekend's games. Stupid offside rules and the occasional player comatose in intensive care or the occasional dispute over Orient players getting the faintest of touches or not? What sort of person supports the risk of the first?
 
stonerblue said:
www.newscientist.com

The real reason VAR infuriates football fans and how to fix it

The controversies surrounding football’s video assistant referee (VAR) system highlight our troubled relationship with uncertainty – and point to potential solutions
www.newscientist.com www.newscientist.com
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That was interesting.

I'll keep it simple. She did a good job summarising the issues around VAR frustration.

But her solutions sound like the sort of nonsense that got us here in the first place with FIFA and IFAB. I don't know her, of course, but I am guessing she doesn't know much about football or go to too many games. My recommendation: don't let her anywhere near Arsene fucking Wenger .....
 
They'd have to get rid of VAR to make the necessary changes so that the "late flag" doesn't happen again.

And they'll never get rid of VAR.
 
cleavers said:
Spectacularly misunderstood my post, concentrating on a single word.

Even if VAR continues for offside, I think the whole offside thing needs to be revised (back to before VAR for me).

This lad is now in intensive care because the assistant referee didn't put her flag up for an absolutely obvious offside, because of stupid "advice" to the officials.

I hope for her sake he recovers, because right or wrong, she will be seriously affected by her none decision, long before the incident.
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Some do put the flag up early, its happened plenty of times at the Etihad this season, it seems they pick & choose when to play on or not ? Absolute shit rule.
 
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