VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

deano ou812 said:
I’ve been saying this,the principle of VAR and what it was intended for was in hindsight fantastic,but then they realised it could be used to manipulate outcomes in games and other situations..
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Those behind its introduction may have had the best intentions, but it was always short sighted and problematic. The other thing to keep in mind is that it's not as if VAR itself was something that the PL pushed to be implemented. Remember the PL resisted implementing it right away. The PL were essentially manipulated or incentivized into implementing it by the FIFA President like many other leagues and then once they agreed to implement it they had to then essentially redesign everything, including changes to the LOTG in a way that made sense to them at the time, to help VAR work better, a rather doomed idea in hindsight, only for it to cause utter chaos when they rolled it out. And ever since it's been more of the same, despite endless attempts to tweak it and make it better, it only seems to get worse and more of a problem.

So, I mean, wanting to end controversy in football is surely a noble goal, but good intentions alone are for the birds when it comes to something as problematic as VAR.
 
VAR ain't going away so the rules need to change.

Just in the last two weeks we've seen an obvious handball outside the area and then the Villa 'goal' today, both of which can be seen by millions of people worldwide, as decisions that were wrong!

If we can see it, then VAR needs to intervene.

If i was a Villa fan i'd be fucking livid right now!
 
The villa keeper being sent off.

Rags player kicked the ball away from goal. So not a clear goal scoring chance. Keeper was covered by defenders getting back. Yet a red card.

Henderson used his hand to knock the ball away from goal. Haaland would have been clear for an open goal. Yer not even a booking.

Someone try and tell me the officials aren't bent
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
Those behind its introduction may have had the best intentions, but it was always short sighted and problematic. The other thing to keep in mind is that it's not as if VAR itself was something that the PL pushed to be implemented. Remember the PL resisted implementing it right away. The PL were essentially manipulated or incentivized into implementing it by the FIFA President like many other leagues and then once they agreed to implement it they had to then essentially redesign everything, including changes to the LOTG in a way that made sense to them at the time, to help VAR work better, a rather doomed idea in hindsight, only for it to cause utter chaos when they rolled it out. And ever since it's been more of the same, despite endless attempts to tweak it and make it better, it only seems to get worse and more of a problem.

So, I mean, wanting to end controversy in football is surely a noble goal, but good intentions alone are for the birds when it comes to something as problematic as VAR.
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Until they go down the road of rugby it’ll never improve or change,they need ref and VAR to be heard in grounds when debating a decision and it shown on the screens in grounds as they are discussing it,rugby have a brilliant clear and transparent system..
 
give it to gordon said:
Of course Henderson handball was deliberate
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Deliberate in the sense that he's a goal keeper and goal keepers are allowed to "deliberately" hand the ball inside the penalty area. What makes it not a deliberate foul is that he was on the border of the area that he's allowed to deliberately hand it so that is what makes it not deliberate as in not a deliberate foul. The double meaning of the term handball as it relates to the goal keeper is the issue here. It's not that I'm saying he didn't deliberately hand it, it's the fact that he did it on the border of where it is and isn't allowed for him to do it that makes it not a deliberate foul.
 
deano ou812 said:
Until they go down the road of rugby it’ll never improve or change,they need ref and VAR to be heard in grounds when debating a decision and it shown on the screens in grounds as they are discussing it,rugby have a brilliant clear and transparent system..
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Sounds like a good idea however Rugby is a very different sport and the kind of decisions that TMO reviews are fundamentally different to the kind of decisions that VAR reviews.
 
Legal Alien said:
VAR ain't going away so the rules need to change.

Just in the last two weeks we've seen an obvious handball outside the area and then the Villa 'goal' today, both of which can be seen by millions of people worldwide, as decisions that were wrong!

If we can see it, then VAR needs to intervene.

If i was a Villa fan i'd be fucking livid right now!
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What pisses me off is the attempted use of VAR to make their decision correct. They didn't want a player sent off in a final so they use VAR and dishonestly tell us something nobody has seen happen. The ref at the Swamp today gave a decision on the basis of what he thought he saw rather than what the tens of thousands saw and what VAR should have seen. It's manipulation which if it isn't intended to twist a result is a blatant attempt to whitewash their incorrect decisions.
 
Legal Alien said:
VAR ain't going away so the rules need to change.

Just in the last two weeks we've seen an obvious handball outside the area and then the Villa 'goal' today, both of which can be seen by millions of people worldwide, as decisions that were wrong!

If we can see it, then VAR needs to intervene.

If i was a Villa fan i'd be fucking livid right now!
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Villa have complained to the PL though that will do a fat lot of good. That decision may well have robbed Villa of several million pounds. It's a fuckin' scandal the way the game is arbitrated.
 
give it to gordon said:
The villa keeper being sent off.

Rags player kicked the ball away from goal. So not a clear goal scoring chance. Keeper was covered by defenders getting back. Yet a red card.

Henderson used his hand to knock the ball away from goal. Haaland would have been clear for an open goal. Yer not even a booking.

Someone try and tell me the officials aren't bent
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It won't be me.
 
give it to gordon said:
The villa keeper being sent off.

Rags player kicked the ball away from goal. So not a clear goal scoring chance. Keeper was covered by defenders getting back. Yet a red card.

Henderson used his hand to knock the ball away from goal. Haaland would have been clear for an open goal. Yer not even a booking.

Someone try and tell me the officials aren't bent
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I resisted in making an argument against the Villa keeper being sent off primarily due to the resistance I received for arguing against a red card for Henderson. Though the situations are entirely different, I think it's fair to say that such an argument against the Villa keeper being sent off would be met with less resistance around here.

That said, I can understand why the Villa keeper was sent off and wouldn't typically go out of my way to object to it, but within the context of the language surrounding the denial of a GSO, well, after watching the replays multiple times, and considering the whole of the situation, you make a very fair point. He clearly kicked the ball hard to the left right as the keeper was approaching and they sort of both pivoted quickly towards the ball and essentially ran into each other moving towards the ball.

And it wasn't as if it was a through pass or something. It was a backpass from Villa that fell woefully short and caused the keeper to naturally run out and try to get to it as it was intended for him, and he ended up sort of stuck in no man's land. You can certainly make the argument that they both sort of equally ran into each other chasing the ball after the United player kicked it hard to the left.

I mean, when you look at the actual criteria involved in what the PL defines as a denial of a GSO :

-Distance between the offence and the goal (was quite far away from the goal and the box)
-General direction of the play (ball was kicked away from the goal which seemingly caused both players to converge on one another to chase the ball - I mean Martinez was certainly turning towards the ball to chase it)
-Likelihood of keeping or gaining control of the ball (highly subjective I would say given that he kicked it hard left and then had to chase the ball, that touch could be viewed as a loss of control)
-Location and number of defenders (the location was far enough from the goal that had the keeper stayed on him and chased him towards the sideline, it might have given other Villa defenders enough time to get back towards the goal and defend the goal in place of the keeper)

So while I certainly understand why he was sent off, on the other hand, to your point, if you actually go through their criteria of what is a supposed denial of a GSO and a red card, it would certainly not be as clear of a red card as maybe it would seem to be in the moment.

And this once against highlights the problem with VAR and the inconsistencies as it pertains to the guidelines that they are supposed to be using to make such decisions.
 
Blue Mist said:
It won't be me.
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Some of the decisions, now that we have video assistance, and can see what happened in slow motion, don't match what we've seen. Why are those decisions made? Haaland last week and the Villa goalie this week. You can't say that the Haaland decision and today at The Swamp can be put in the file under 'human mistake'! They deliberately made a decision that doesn't fit the facts - unless they hide behind that hoary old chestnut of when I was reffin' forty years ago -THE REFEREE IS THE SOLE ARBITER OF FACT!
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
Deliberate in the sense that he's a goal keeper and goal keepers are allowed to "deliberately" hand the ball inside the penalty area. What makes it not a deliberate foul is that he was on the border of the area that he's allowed to deliberately hand it so that is what makes it not deliberate as in not a deliberate foul. The double meaning of the term handball as it relates to the goal keeper is the issue here. It's not that I'm saying he didn't deliberately hand it, it's the fact that he did it on the border of where it is and isn't allowed for him to do it that makes it not a deliberate foul.
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What a load of bollocks ! Henderson was at least a yard outside his box, he knew exactly what he was doing, why didn't Henderson try to head the ball ?
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
Deliberate in the sense that he's a goal keeper and goal keepers are allowed to "deliberately" hand the ball inside the penalty area. What makes it not a deliberate foul is that he was on the border of the area that he's allowed to deliberately hand it so that is what makes it not deliberate as in not a deliberate foul. The double meaning of the term handball as it relates to the goal keeper is the issue here. It's not that I'm saying he didn't deliberately hand it, it's the fact that he did it on the border of where it is and isn't allowed for him to do it that makes it not a deliberate foul.
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Can’t agree.
These players literally play on the extremes. They know the width of the lines to the nth degree and I could pretty much guarantee Henderson knew he was out of his area.
It was deliberate.
 
TheBeautifulGame said:
It certainly gives that impression, that's for sure. But I'm not sure AI is the answer either. We're stuck between a rock and a hard place as it pertains to VAR. There are an infuriating amount of problems with it and after 5-7 years the best course of action is remove it from the sport and return to normal refereeing. Yes there will still be contentious decisions and the occasional missed incident but compared to this madness it would be a huge improvement.
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AI would certainly be an improvement over the current bunch of corrupt Muppet's who just make shit up as they go along.
 
give it to gordon said:
What a load of bollocks ! Henderson was at least a yard outside his box, he knew exactly what he was doing, why didn't Henderson try to head the ball ?
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A yard now? His body was inside the box, the extent that he reached out over the line was less than an arm length from about his bicep which was about on the line to his hand. So how far beyond the edge would be the length between his bicep and his hand.
 
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