mancity2012_eamo
Well-Known Member
Crikey!
And I was worried calling it meh!
In fairness, @Saddleworth2 my next listen will be alone and I’ll give it my undivided attention.
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The Album Review Club - Week #195 (page 1310) - A New World Record - ELO
- Thread starter RobMCFC
- Start date
And I was worried calling it meh!
In fairness, @Saddleworth2 my next listen will be alone and I’ll give it my undivided attention.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Don’t worry mate. I didn’t think it would be that popular.Crikey!
And I was worried calling it meh!
In fairness, @Saddleworth2 my next listen will be alone and I’ll give it my undivided attention.
It’s a bit rich coming from someone that nominated ‘War of the Worlds’ though :-)
OB1
Well-Known Member
I've had another listen...
Firstly. Voice. Fucking awful. Up and down and all kooky for no apparent reason. And the inflection. Christ alive.
Secondly. Lyrics. Putting aside the quite frankly moronic "Ironic" the rest is a mixed bag of utter drivel. Rhyming child with while should deserve high praise but anything sung in a kooky voice will rhyme.
Thirdly. It's a break up album. An utterly banal break up album. God I hate break up albums...oooh you were mean and I'm just getting over you...but I'll write this pile of shit and sing it in a weird voice because it's the 90's and that's what us strong women do...go us.
Forthly? I'm back in the Friends generation again. This period of music, especially across the pond produced the most utterly tiresome and dull music in the history of utterly tiresome and dire music. It's all so nice. Yes nice. It doesn't matter how mean you find the lyrics, they are all very twee and nice lyrics. Instead of going round to the ex and sorting it out like any normal person would do, or fucking move on, we have to listen to her bang on about how great she is and what a bastard the ex was. Of course. It's all his fault. And not the skinny mental bitch he left for a normal woman.
Fifthly. It's a word. Honest. There are some hooks here. But it's ruined by the production. Lovely 90's production. Throw everything at it. And her going all weird every now and then. And the lyrics. Which just don't hit now...and never did.
Sixthly. I'm sticking with this now. FUCKING DINNER PARTY MUSIC.
At least I got that out of the way and can now go back to 1973, or my 3000+ album collection on vinyl that doesn't include this pile of shit and never will.
Hateful stuff.
1/10
(And that's being really really nice)
You do make some good points here.
However, I tend not to get hung up about lyrics: I don’t think many artists produce consistently good ones.
The vocals did jar a bit at first, I had forgotten how shrieky they could be.
But, this album was a massive seller for a reason. There’s a good deal of catchy hit material here.
7/10
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
A superbly vitriolic review . . . .I've had another listen...
Firstly. Voice. Fucking awful. Up and down and all kooky for no apparent reason. And the inflection. Christ alive.
Secondly. Lyrics. Putting aside the quite frankly moronic "Ironic" the rest is a mixed bag of utter drivel. Rhyming child with while should deserve high praise but anything sung in a kooky voice will rhyme.
Thirdly. It's a break up album. An utterly banal break up album. God I hate break up albums...oooh you were mean and I'm just getting over you...but I'll write this pile of shit and sing it in a weird voice because it's the 90's and that's what us strong women do...go us.
Forthly? I'm back in the Friends generation again. This period of music, especially across the pond produced the most utterly tiresome and dull music in the history of utterly tiresome and dire music. It's all so nice. Yes nice. It doesn't matter how mean you find the lyrics, they are all very twee and nice lyrics. Instead of going round to the ex and sorting it out like any normal person would do, or fucking move on, we have to listen to her bang on about how great she is and what a bastard the ex was. Of course. It's all his fault. And not the skinny mental bitch he left for a normal woman.
Fifthly. It's a word. Honest. There are some hooks here. But it's ruined by the production. Lovely 90's production. Throw everything at it. And her going all weird every now and then. And the lyrics. Which just don't hit now...and never did.
Sixthly. I'm sticking with this now. FUCKING DINNER PARTY MUSIC.
At least I got that out of the way and can now go back to 1973, or my 3000+ album collection on vinyl that doesn't include this pile of shit and never will.
Hateful stuff.
1/10
(And that's being really really nice)
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
. . . followed by an even better comeback!Don’t worry mate. I didn’t think it would be that popular.
It’s a bit rich coming from someone that nominated ‘War of the Worlds’ though :-)
BlueHammer85
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- Joined
- 13 Oct 2010
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- 40,825
It’s a bit rich coming from someone that nominated ‘War of the Worlds’ though :-)
isn't it ironic? Don't you think…
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
The ironic bit is she wrote a song called "Ironic" but doesn't actually use many (any?) examples of actual irony. But perhaps that's what she intended to be ironic, which is and of itself not exactly ironic. She admitted later that the song didn't have any ironies in it. Perhaps this is all 4D-level chess on her part. Never trust those sneaky maple-syrup-eating ice farmers.isn't it ironic? Don't you think…
threespires
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I've had another listen...
Firstly. Voice. Fucking awful. Up and down and all kooky for no apparent reason. And the inflection. Christ alive.
Secondly. Lyrics. Putting aside the quite frankly moronic "Ironic" the rest is a mixed bag of utter drivel. Rhyming child with while should deserve high praise but anything sung in a kooky voice will rhyme.
Thirdly. It's a break up album. An utterly banal break up album. God I hate break up albums...oooh you were mean and I'm just getting over you...but I'll write this pile of shit and sing it in a weird voice because it's the 90's and that's what us strong women do...go us.
Forthly? I'm back in the Friends generation again. This period of music, especially across the pond produced the most utterly tiresome and dull music in the history of utterly tiresome and dire music. It's all so nice. Yes nice. It doesn't matter how mean you find the lyrics, they are all very twee and nice lyrics. Instead of going round to the ex and sorting it out like any normal person would do, or fucking move on, we have to listen to her bang on about how great she is and what a bastard the ex was. Of course. It's all his fault. And not the skinny mental bitch he left for a normal woman.
Fifthly. It's a word. Honest. There are some hooks here. But it's ruined by the production. Lovely 90's production. Throw everything at it. And her going all weird every now and then. And the lyrics. Which just don't hit now...and never did.
Sixthly. I'm sticking with this now. FUCKING DINNER PARTY MUSIC.
At least I got that out of the way and can now go back to 1973, or my 3000+ album collection on vinyl that doesn't include this pile of shit and never will.
Hateful stuff.
1/10
(And that's being really really nice)
Not sure what kind of dinner parties you're going to but the context of a song like Right Through You is the sexual abuse she encountered as a 14 year old when she started out in the music industry. It's fairly veiled but as her career went on and she got more secure she talked and wrote about it more openly.
Don't think it's really break up stuff she's talking about on much of this. This is a young woman who, by virtue of her career choice, encountered in her teenage years a spectrum of at best middle aged sleezebags and at worst rapists. I think this record is amongst other things the start of processing those experiences, the 'angry' tracks aren't really about a bloke pissing her off they're about power imbalances in relationships.
She ended up quite accomplished at it in the end imo. There's a later song called 'hands clean' that has a very hooky chorus you can easily singalong to until you listen to the words you are singing and realise they are essentially describing paedophilia. In her own way I think she's been quite subversive.
All about opinions at the end of the day but whatever else it is or isn't I'd argue that for most of it, it's misguided to bracket it with the twee world of Friends.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
The ironic bit is she wrote a song called "Ironic" but doesn't actually use many (any?) examples of actual irony. But perhaps that's what she intended to be ironic, which is and of itself not exactly ironic. She admitted later that the song didn't have any ironies in it. Perhaps this is all 4D-level chess on her part. Never trust those sneaky maple-syrup-eating ice farmers.
Also, as an aside, please god let’s not debate the meaning of ‘Ironic’ - that one’s been done to death :-).
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what the context was, I'm sure most of the people had no idea what she was banging on about when they bought it in their droves. It's background music. Hence ideal for a dinner party. And the kooky one from Friends.Not sure what kind of dinner parties you're going to but the context of a song like Right Through You is the sexual abuse she encountered as a 14 year old when she started out in the music industry. It's fairly veiled but as her career went on and she got more secure she talked and wrote about it more openly.
Don't think it's really break up stuff she's talking about on much of this. This is a young woman who, by virtue of her career choice, encountered in her teenage years a spectrum of at best middle aged sleezebags and at worst rapists. I think this record is amongst other things the start of processing those experiences, the 'angry' tracks aren't really about a bloke pissing her off they're about power imbalances in relationships.
She ended up quite accomplished at it in the end imo. There's a later song called 'hands clean' that has a very hooky chorus you can easily singalong to until you listen to the words you are singing and realise they are essentially describing paedophilia. In her own way I think she's been quite subversive.
All about opinions at the end of the day but whatever else it is or isn't I'd argue that for most of it, it's misguided to bracket it with the twee world of Friends.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
We were discussing this over dinner. I said that having nothing ironic in the song apart from the title was probably a synical ploy to make people buy the record.The ironic bit is she wrote a song called "Ironic" but doesn't actually use many (any?) examples of actual irony. But perhaps that's what she intended to be ironic, which is and of itself not exactly ironic. She admitted later that the song didn't have any ironies in it. Perhaps this is all 4D-level chess on her part. Never trust those sneaky maple-syrup-eating ice farmers.
She told me to shut up. We aren't all stuck in the 70's/ early 80's apparently. And I was eating and talking at the same time.
BimboBob
Well-Known Member
Touché Turtle...Don’t worry mate. I didn’t think it would be that popular.
It’s a bit rich coming from someone that nominated ‘War of the Worlds’ though :-)
...and Dum Dum.
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
@Saddleworth2 your request has been considered and denied re: Ironic. I will have more to say on this topic but one listen through I will say were I the record company (or Alanis) I would have chosen two different songs to be released as singles as opposed to two that were. Not that any were bad — just that as many hits as there were, there are deeper, more interesting songs here.
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
@BimboBob - being the gentleman that I am, may I offer you my hand to help you down from that fence of which you appear perched?I've had another listen...
Firstly. Voice. Fucking awful. Up and down and all kooky for no apparent reason. And the inflection. Christ alive.
Secondly. Lyrics. Putting aside the quite frankly moronic "Ironic" the rest is a mixed bag of utter drivel. Rhyming child with while should deserve high praise but anything sung in a kooky voice will rhyme.
Thirdly. It's a break up album. An utterly banal break up album. God I hate break up albums...oooh you were mean and I'm just getting over you...but I'll write this pile of shit and sing it in a weird voice because it's the 90's and that's what us strong women do...go us.
Forthly? I'm back in the Friends generation again. This period of music, especially across the pond produced the most utterly tiresome and dull music in the history of utterly tiresome and dire music. It's all so nice. Yes nice. It doesn't matter how mean you find the lyrics, they are all very twee and nice lyrics. Instead of going round to the ex and sorting it out like any normal person would do, or fucking move on, we have to listen to her bang on about how great she is and what a bastard the ex was. Of course. It's all his fault. And not the skinny mental bitch he left for a normal woman.
Fifthly. It's a word. Honest. There are some hooks here. But it's ruined by the production. Lovely 90's production. Throw everything at it. And her going all weird every now and then. And the lyrics. Which just don't hit now...and never did.
Sixthly. I'm sticking with this now. FUCKING DINNER PARTY MUSIC.
At least I got that out of the way and can now go back to 1973, or my 3000+ album collection on vinyl that doesn't include this pile of shit and never will.
Hateful stuff.
1/10
(And that's being really really nice)
Enjoyed the write up!
Album was just missing a Beatles cover surely............ ;-)
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
Come on Foggy - everyone knows the best Americans come from Canada......... :-)The ironic bit is she wrote a song called "Ironic" but doesn't actually use many (any?) examples of actual irony. But perhaps that's what she intended to be ironic, which is and of itself not exactly ironic. She admitted later that the song didn't have any ironies in it. Perhaps this is all 4D-level chess on her part. Never trust those sneaky maple-syrup-eating ice farmers.
BlueHammer85
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- Joined
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- Messages
- 40,825
The ironic bit is she wrote a song called "Ironic" but doesn't actually use many (any?) examples of actual irony. But perhaps that's what she intended to be ironic, which is and of itself not exactly ironic. She admitted later that the song didn't have any ironies in it. Perhaps this is all 4D-level chess on her part. Never trust those sneaky maple-syrup-eating ice farmers.
The ironic thing about Ironic is how unironically it misunderstands irony — which is ironic itself, because calling something ironic when it is not actually ironic is, ironically, the most ironic thing about it. And ironically, that makes the song more ironic than if it had been genuinely ironic to begin with.
GornikDaze
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- Messages
- 10,521
What he said….The ironic thing about Ironic is how unironically it misunderstands irony — which is ironic itself, because calling something ironic when it is not actually ironic is, ironically, the most ironic thing about it. And ironically, that makes the song more ironic than if it had been genuinely ironic to begin with.
threespires
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It doesn't matter what the context was, I'm sure most of the people had no idea what she was banging on about when they bought it in their droves. It's background music. Hence ideal for a dinner party. And the kooky one from Friends.
i can't be arsed to argue with you so it's back to my breakfast accompanied by Dido's greatest hits for me.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Completely agree. Ironic is my least favourite song. And not because she doesn’t understand the meaning of ironic.@Saddleworth2 your request has been considered and denied re: Ironic. I will have more to say on this topic but one listen through I will say were I the record company (or Alanis) I would have chosen two different songs to be released as singles as opposed to two that were. Not that any were bad — just that as many hits as there were, there are deeper, more interesting songs here.
Onholiday(somemightsay)
Well-Known Member
Very good.......... :-)i can't be arsed to argue with you so it's back to my breakfast accompanied by Dido's greatest hits for me.