VAR Discussion Thread | 2024/25

From the comments on that Madley article...

"What is “clear and obvious?”
Can you provide an objective definition on which everyone would agree?
Clue: You can’t, because “clear and obvious” is itself subjective.
The whole thing is flawed because the entire premise is nonsense."
It echoes my sentiments on VAR.

Thats why VAR needs to go. The premise, that everything can be defined, categorized, that you can categorise absolutely every incident of handball ever, its all hocum and it has brought us to the stage where we are even redefining what is handball (for example).

Further to that, the lower leagues, the sunday park football doesnt do that,. They dont have this concept of "it slightly touched his hand therefore penalty" or " 2 stages before the goal was scored there was a foul near the halfway line" They dont do that. They have the ref, he decides, move on and the game flows.

The game should be played the same no matter what pitch you play on imo.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
From the comments on that Madley article...

"What is “clear and obvious?”
Can you provide an objective definition on which everyone would agree?
Clue: You can’t, because “clear and obvious” is itself subjective.
The whole thing is flawed because the entire premise is nonsense."
It echoes my sentiments on VAR.

Thats why VAR needs to go. The premise, that everything can be defined, categorized, that you can categorise absolutely every incident of handball ever, its all hocum and it has brought us to the stage where we are even redefining what is handball (for example).

Further to that, the lower leagues, the sunday park football doesnt do that,. They dont have this concept of "it slightly touched his hand therefore penalty" or " 2 stages before the goal was scored there was a foul near the halfway line" They dont do that. They have the ref, he decides, move on and the game flows.

The game should be played the same no matter what pitch you play on imo.
Click to expand...
That was always one of the great things about sport: no matter the level, the rules were the same for everyone.
Our FA Cup games were mainly VAR-free, because lower league clubs don’t have it. Then we did have it for the semi and the final. Totally different. Fucking ridiculous.
But hey, it’s “progress”.
 
The game existed for nearly 2 centuries without this wank. Sure, sometimes it went against you, sometimes you got lucky. Just as is still does in every match across the planet, bar the top flight professionals. Only there do we have this fucking shite.
It was foisted upon us. And I fucking hate it.
 
Starting at the Club World Cup, linesman are going to get a little beep in their ear to tell them that a player is ‘clearly’ in an offside position and they may want to stick their flag up, rather than delay it, if they think an offside offence has been committed.

Some might think that if they’re ‘clearly’ offside, they shouldn’t really need a beep to alert them. But we’ll see if it makes any noticeably difference soon enough.
 
Stephen230 said:
Starting at the Club World Cup, linesman are going to get a little beep in their ear to tell them that a player is ‘clearly’ in an offside position and they may want to stick their flag up, rather than delay it, if they think an offside offence has been committed.

Some might think that if they’re ‘clearly’ offside, they shouldn’t really need a beep to alert them. But we’ll see if it makes any noticeably difference soon enough.
Click to expand...

How on God's green earth is that going to work? It can't be automated because of all the subjective elements to be taken into account, so it's just another human interaction?

Sounds like an idiot cherry on top of a stupid cake .... Again.
 
halfcenturyup said:
How on God's green earth is that going to work? It can't be automated because of all the subjective elements to be taken into account, so it's just another human interaction?

Sounds like an idiot cherry on top of a stupid cake .... Again.
Click to expand...

It is judging whether they’re in an offside position. Not whether they’ve committed an offside offence. That’s still up to human beings. For now.
 
Stephen230 said:
It is judging whether they’re in an offside position. Not whether they’ve committed an offside offence. That’s still up to human beings. For now.
Click to expand...

Whether who is in an offside position? And how do they determine who it is?

Never mind. It won't make any difference imho and it is guaranteed to screw up at some stage.

Human nature I imagine will be to hear a beep and put the flag up immediately. With their track record of wonderful technological advancement, I am guessing it will all end in tears. Again.
 
halfcenturyup said:
Whether who is in an offside position? And how do they determine who it is?

Never mind. It won't make any difference imho and it is guaranteed to screw up at some stage.

Human nature I imagine will be to hear a beep and put the flag up immediately. With their track record of wonderful technological advancement, I am guessing it will all end in tears. Again.
Click to expand...

A bit more info has come out about the specifics of this.

The linesman will be prompted to raise his flag when a player in an offside position by more than 10 cm touches the ball.

So it wouldn’t be currently transferable to the Premier League, as it requires a chip in the ball.

It also, of course wouldn’t make any difference in the likes of the Rashford/ Fernandez goal, as it’s only coming into play when a player actually touches the ball.
 
Stephen230 said:
A bit more info has come out about the specifics of this.

The linesman will be prompted to raise his flag when a player in an offside position by more than 10 cm touches the ball.

So it wouldn’t be currently transferable to the Premier League, as it requires a chip in the ball.

It also, of course wouldn’t make any difference in the likes of the Rashford/ Fernandez goal, as it’s only coming into play when a player actually touches the ball.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I don't necessarily have a problem with speeding up the decision to flag for offside by using automation. As always, my problems are in looking for certainty with automation, and for how the technology actually works.

For example, the new system won't be used for "complex and very close" offside calls. Two questions.

Why is the new system not used for very close offside calls? If SAOT is accurate, why not all offside calls? If it isn't accurate to 10cm, why is there no tolerance in any offside decision?

Who determines whether an offside is complex? Artificial intelligence, apparently. Again, we are leaving subjectivity in the hands of the people who develop the technology. I am predicting that, at some point, an offside will be given in a complex situation that shouldn't have been. It's inevitable.

And I am guessing Collina's latest search for absolute truth in offsides will fail. It will either make mistakes, or disappear further and further up its own arse with more and more expensive technology and less and less relevance to the original point of punishing offside players. As it always has so far.
 
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