London bound Air India 787 Dreamliner crashes at Ahmedabad

Ithryn Luin said:
I watch many of these Air Crash Investigation programmes and YouTube Pilots views on them. It gives me more confidence to fly due to the forensic investigations and sbsequent adoptions of improvements both to equipment, procedures and training. Thus it is by far the safest form of transport.

If you hold that view then I'd be far more worried about being in a car as there are far more drivers with FA knowledge of what they are doing, drunk or driving unworthy vehicles.

As for the Air France flight. The passengers did not know a thing as even the pilots were unaware they were gradually descending.
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Yeah, its that last paragraph that irks me I suppose. Its just me though I hate flying.
 
Txiki Txiki Bang Bang said:
The comments on social media is sick. Some how this has turned into an anti-immigration issue. Fucking mental gymnastics
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Very sad to see some City fans doing this, including that Man City Tickets account. If he's on here, then I'd like to say you're a small-minded, racist twat pal.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Same here. Wont fly, or try not to. I have watched too many of those documentaries to bring me to the conclusion that there are people who dont know what they are doing in all walks of life including Airline pilots, engineers, manufacturers, etc.

That Air France one, over the atlantic? I think that was the one where the co pilot was basically flying the plane into the sea because he was disorientated? I think that was the one.
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Everybody I work with knows their stuff inside out, the biggest problem is we're all human and mistakes do happen. Usually it's a cascade of relatively smaller issues and human problems which add up to cause something like a crash.

With the AF447 crash there was bad weather and aircraft had a relatively benign design flaw which could be exposed in severe weather. This started with the captain on a rest break and then both flying pilots never really understood what was going on. All they really had to do was recognise what was happening and sit on their hands until they cleared the bad weather but they fought the aircraft. Human problems like this are where much of the safety effort goes nowadays.

There is still that 0.01% risk but removing that risk would be like setting out to prevent every single car accident which is possible but in reality it may as well be impossible. Humans are the main cause of 99% of car crashes and that will always happen despite all of the safety aids available.

If you can't tolerate that risk then indeed not flying is a good decision but by that logic you certainly shouldn't choose to get into your car today! Nearly 2,000 people per year are killed on the roads whereas not a single person has been killed in a fatal air crash on a UK carrier for decades.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Very sad to see some City fans doing this, including that Man City Tickets account. If he's on here, then I'd like to say you're a small-minded, racist twat pal.
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I don't know how or when it happened but it seems throwing an anti-immigration twist into every issue now seems cool and gets you a pat on the back. Madness
 
inbetween said:
Everybody I work with knows their stuff inside out, the biggest problem is we're all human and mistakes do happen. Usually it's a cascade of relatively smaller issues and human problems which add up to cause something like a crash.

With the AF447 crash there was bad weather and aircraft had a relatively benign design flaw which could be exposed in severe weather. This started with the captain on a rest break and then both flying pilots never really understood what was going on. All they really had to do was recognise what was happening and sit on their hands until they cleared the bad weather but they fought the aircraft. Human problems like this are where much of the safety effort goes nowadays.

There is still that 0.01% risk but removing that risk would be like setting out to prevent every single car accident which is possible but in reality it may as well be impossible. Humans are the main cause of 99% of car crashes and that will always happen despite all of the safety aids available.

If you can't tolerate that risk then indeed not flying is a good decision but by that logic you certainly shouldn't choose to get into your car today! Nearly 2,000 people per year are killed on the roads whereas not a single person has been killed in a fatal air crash on a UK carrier for decades.
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Was the 1989 M1 crash the last one?

I know the BA one crash landed at Heathrow more recently but no one died on that I don’t think.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Know a lad that missed that (on the M1) by about a minute when driving to Leeds. Although he’s not really a lad anymore!
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Weirdly I was on the motorway that night driving back to my digs in London. Was M6/M1 though so got on M1 well after East Midlands but it was about the same time. Found out about it the day after.

That is a lot of flights since then without incident. Think the Dreamliner had carried 1bn passengers before this accident.

Apparently there are over 100,000 flights a day globally so pretty safe way to travel.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Same here. Wont fly, or try not to. I have watched too many of those documentaries to bring me to the conclusion that there are people who dont know what they are doing in all walks of life including Airline pilots, engineers, manufacturers, etc.

That Air France one, over the atlantic? I think that was the one where the co pilot was basically flying the plane into the sea because he was disorientated? I think that was the one.
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I love watching those air crash investigation & there have been 276 episodes in 20 years. Although they are catastrophe and fundamental mistakes have been made, usually down to the aircraft companies priorising profit, it's less than 1% of planes in the sky at any moment
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Weirdly I was on the motorway that night driving back to my digs in London. Was M6/M1 though so got on M1 well after East Midlands but it was about the same time. Found out about it the day after.

That is a lot of flights since then without incident. Think the Dreamliner had carried 1bn passengers before this accident.

Apparently there are over 100,000 flights a day globally so pretty safe way to travel.
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That last figure is nuts. No wonder it’s getting warmer!
 
inbetween said:
Everybody I work with knows their stuff inside out, the biggest problem is we're all human and mistakes do happen. Usually it's a cascade of relatively smaller issues and human problems which add up to cause something like a crash.

With the AF447 crash there was bad weather and aircraft had a relatively benign design flaw which could be exposed in severe weather. This started with the captain on a rest break and then both flying pilots never really understood what was going on. All they really had to do was recognise what was happening and sit on their hands until they cleared the bad weather but they fought the aircraft. Human problems like this are where much of the safety effort goes nowadays.

There is still that 0.01% risk but removing that risk would be like setting out to prevent every single car accident which is possible but in reality it may as well be impossible. Humans are the main cause of 99% of car crashes and that will always happen despite all of the safety aids available.

If you can't tolerate that risk then indeed not flying is a good decision but by that logic you certainly shouldn't choose to get into your car today! Nearly 2,000 people per year are killed on the roads whereas not a single person has been killed in a fatal air crash on a UK carrier for decades.
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I think the current stats for the UK are that on average 5 people killed on the roads every single day.

As you say, human factors, compounding errors and the 'Swiss Cheese' effect usually contribute to catastrophic failure of an aircraft, and the aviation industry are one of the best at learning from their mistakes.
 
Following up on additional areas of interest — Airworthiness Directive issued in May effective June for potable water leaks into electrical equipment bays on certain 787s. Certain pilot forums suggesting this was once a problem on 74s and created issues at rotation. Again — not speculating on cause — just trying to advance the discussion.

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