London bound Air India 787 Dreamliner crashes at Ahmedabad

Be interesting to hear from the pilots on here what the location is of these cut off switches and how easy this would be to do by mistake.
 
This raises more questions than it answers..


From the report:

Flaps were set to 5 - CORRECT POSITION
Undercarriage was not raised: WRONG POSITION
FUEL SWITCHES FOUND IN RUN (CORRECT POSITION)

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But..

According to the report, data from the flight recorders show that the two fuel control switches were switched from the "run" position to "cutoff" shortly after takeoff. In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots can be heard asking the other "why did he cutoff," the report says, while "the other pilot responded that he did not do so."

Moments later, the report says, the fuel switches were returned to the "run" position. But by then, the plane had begun to lose thrust and altitude. Both the engines appeared to relight, according to investigators, but only one of them was able to begin generating thrust.

The 32 year old first officer was the pilot flying at the time of the crash, according to investigators. The report suggests that there was nothing out of the ordinary about its takeoff — until the fuel control switches were flipped off.
 
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Citizen of Legoland said:
At this stage, looking like pilot error..,

www.bbc.co.uk

Victims' families demand answers as report says fuel switches cut off before Air India crash

In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he "did the cut-off", the other pilot replied that he didn't.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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I know nothing about cockpits or flying planes. But something doesn’t sit right with me that two switches can kill both engines so easily. I’ve just read that the switches are made so you have to pull them up before pulling them down, so both engines can’t be killed with the same hand movement, or by mistake.

I get the feeling that we may never know what went on in that cockpit which is pretty scary as a frequent traveller. I’d rather it be known that there was a faulty component which led to the crash instead of pilot error.
 
Manchester_lalala said:
I know nothing about cockpits or flying planes. But something doesn’t sit right with me that two switches can kill both engines so easily. I’ve just read that the switches are made so you have to pull them up before pulling them down, so both engines can’t be killed with the same hand movement, or by mistake.

I get the feeling that we may never know what went on in that cockpit which is pretty scary as a frequent traveller. I’d rather it be known that there was a faulty component which led to the crash instead of pilot error.
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Or even worse, a deliberate act.
 
Millwallawayveteran1988 said:
Or even worse, a deliberate act.
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I didn’t watch the video above before I wrote my post. I get the impression that the pilot in that video kind of suggests that it may have been deliberate as there’s no explanation why those switches would have been flicked down, he also references a situation he’s come across before regarding pilots being in the right frame of mind.

Probably the worst possible scenario you can think of as a passenger. Like I said before, you can kind of accept the plane having a fault which leads to an accident. The aviation industry learns from accidents which are caused by faulty components, but pilot error scares the shit out of me
 
Manchester_lalala said:
I know nothing about cockpits or flying planes. But something doesn’t sit right with me that two switches can kill both engines so easily. I’ve just read that the switches are made so you have to pull them up before pulling them down, so both engines can’t be killed with the same hand movement, or by mistake.

I get the feeling that we may never know what went on in that cockpit which is pretty scary as a frequent traveller. I’d rather it be known that there was a faulty component which led to the crash instead of pilot error.
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Unfortunately you are correct we may never know. It sounds like the focus will now be on the mental states and backgrounds of the two pilots (assuming nobody else had access to the switches). This could be medical as well as consciously deliberate, I remember my father before his brain tumour diagnosis stopping at green lights and driving through red lights and being completely unaware, although with the regular check ups pilots have this would be very, very unfortunate.
 
Trying to understand the engine fuel switches and their purpose. Read the explanation on BBC site and it's sole purpose is to switch engines on about to take off and switch off when landing has taken place.
In other words not for use unless on the ground. If so surely the planes digital system should be programmed to exclude flight use unless possible emergencies eg engine fire.
 
SilverFox2 said:
Trying to understand the engine fuel switches and their purpose. Read the explanation on BBC site and it's sole purpose is to switch engines on about to take off and switch off when landing has taken place.
In other words not for use unless on the ground. If so surely the planes digital system should be programmed to exclude flight use unless possible emergencies eg engine fire.
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If you watch the video he does describe one scenario where you would use the switches while in-flight - where there is a dual engine failure and you'd switch the fuel off and then on again immediately. I expect there are other scenarios where you would use the switch to turn a single engine off too to stop fuel to the engine e.g. if it was on fire. You would think they could program it that they aren't enabled during take off and landing though at least, maybe limit to a certain height.
 
ActonBlue said:
If you watch the video he does describe one scenario where you would use the switches while in-flight - where there is a dual engine failure and you'd switch the fuel off and then on again immediately. I expect there are other scenarios where you would use the switch to turn a single engine off too to stop fuel to the engine e.g. if it was on fire. You would think they could program it that they aren't enabled during take off and landing though at least, maybe limit to a certain height.
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I recall on his video he stated that these switches are not in any check list below 4 000 feet (?). I may be wrong but the last thing you need is to stop the fuel to the engines if there is a loss of power.
 
Those switches must have been on or the plane would never have left the ground. I suspect that whilst the co-pilot was pulling back on the stick as the plane got to “Rotate” the senior officer deliberately shut down the switches. It would have been a nightmare situation for the co-pilot hanging on to the stick whilst desperately trying to put the switches back to the on position. He didn’t stand a chance at that altitude.
 
jimharri said:
Would the landing gear being unintentionally left down be catastrophic? Any footage you see of planes taking off, the wheels are lifted very quickly.
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I wouldn't have thought so. I surmise that something was happening on the flight deck that made raising the gear a lesser priority than the norm.
 
Brightwell’s left peg said:
Friend of mine is a Dreamliner pilot.

Said yesterday, there’s no way those switches can be switched off by mistake. You have to turn around and reach for them.

He thinks it’s a deliberate act.
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I wonder if it makes any difference that, according to thebreport, this was the first time the younger one was pilot in charge of a dreamliner? (If I'm reading that report correctly?)
 
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