Student Debt

[geoff hammond]

It's incredible how many people want something for nothing, people who work paying for people to go to enhanced school

But they are not getting it for nothing. They are receiving a shite deal in many cases and having to pay for it in the long run.

 

[mexico1970]

But they are not getting it for nothing. They are receiving a shite deal in many cases and having to pay for it in the long run.

I said some people want a freebie not that they are getting it, if people want to go to university they should at least go for a degree that will pay for itself unless of course they can just afford to do a vanity degree.

Anyone going to university now should fucking know that shouldn't they?

 

[Earlyriser]

When I was at University in the 90s I got a grant which covered rent, bills, books and some left over to live a basic life. Luckily my Mum and Dad helped out and couple with an overdraft lived pretty well. I then did a Masters and got paid(!) £400/month to do it. I came out University education with an overdraft of £3k but a BSc and MSc. I could get a job and comfortably afford a 2up/2down no problem.

The Student Loan thing is an utter scam. It should be scrapped tomorrow and anyone paying it should have the debt cleared. I work with people who have nearly £70k in Student Debts - how can we expect them to buy a house (ha!), save for a pension and live? It's disgraceful. The additional tax on their income means that once/if they get to be higher tax payers any extra income is not far off taxed by 50% - that's wrong.

I've been to plenty of conferences/talks where they say that even degrees/Masters/PhDs in things like medicine, law, accountancy, engineering, software development which were almost guarantees of a good job are also some of the biggest ones at risk from AI which means it's going to get even harder for younger people to do well.

The whole system is a scam. You should be able to learn for learnings sake, not just to make money from it.

I commented on here a few days ago and mentioned the threat AI posed in many areas of traditional graduate recruitment and Amazon have in the last 24 hours how they plan to cut jobs over the next few years. Anybody taking on graduate debt needs to think long and hard and forget about the social cache that a degree used to offer

 

[mexico1970]

I commented on here a few days ago and mentioned the threat AI posed in many areas of traditional graduate recruitment and Amazon have in the last 24 hours how they plan to cut jobs over the next few years. Anybody taking on graduate debt needs to think long and hard and forget about the social cache that a degree used to offer

A degree meant a lot when only 4% of school leavers went to university, now more school leavers go than don't and that's just to feed the business of learning.

Imagine what the unemployment figures would be if universities were prevented their grift?

 

[Silva Citizen]

I said some people want a freebie not that they are getting it, if people want to go to university they should at least go for a degree that will pay for itself unless of course they can just afford to do a vanity degree.

Anyone going to university now should fucking know that shouldn't they?

Which sort of proves the point. Did you know what you wanted to do for the rest of your life at 18? Unfortunately the kids don’t all know what they want to do, or even are able to do taking technological advances into account.
Is it right that the government sells it as a loan to enhance potential when in reality it is a tax on future earnings.

Can you imagine a high street bank issuing a loan to a teenager with no earnings and adding interest from day 1 of learning not the end of the course.

 

[geoff hammond]

I said some people want a freebie not that they are getting it, if people want to go to university they should at least go for a degree that will pay for itself unless of course they can just afford to do a vanity degree.

Anyone going to university now should fucking know that shouldn't they?

Unfortunately plenty of these 17 year olds who begin the process of applying these days are not (made) fully aware of the consequences of going to university. And plenty of these courses they are mis-sold are not worth the £50 k debt.

 

[mexico1970]

Which sort of proves the point. Did you know what you wanted to do for the rest of your life at 18? Unfortunately the kids don’t all know what they want to do, or even are able to do taking technological advances into account.
Is it right that the government sells it as a loan to enhance potential when in reality it is a tax on future earnings.

Can you imagine a high street bank issuing a loan to a teenager with no earnings and adding interest from day 1 of learning not the end of the course.

You can dress it up any way you want but an adult is responsible for their own debt, want a university degree then get one that pays.

Better still stop taking the govt spiel and just well, get a job?

 

[mexico1970]

Unfortunately plenty of these 17 year olds who begin the process of applying these days are not (made) fully aware of the consequences of going to university. And plenty of these courses they are mis-sold are not worth the £50 k debt.

And why should I pay for that mistake? Where are the parents of these feckless drones walking into debt? Where do they think the money they are spending is coming from?

The brightest of the bright used to get admitted university, not so much now it seems.

 

[Silva Citizen]

And why should I pay for that mistake? Where are the parents of these feckless drones walking into debt? Where do they think the money they are spending is coming from?

The brightest of the bright used to get admitted university, not so much now it seems.

And on that sir we agree, Raise the bar for entry and go back to something similar to the way it was for hundreds of years prior

 

[stablemcfc]

That must mean you're on about £250k a year. Think you're doing alright.

Doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be salty!

Will be >£100k poorer than if I’d been born a year earlier. And it’s only getting worse for the newer students.

 

[mexico1970]

And on that sir we agree, Raise the bar for entry and go back to something similar to the way it was for hundreds of years prior

That's exactly what we need to do mate and with scholarships for the students whose family are too poor to send them.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I’ve just seen the over £45k debt that my daughter owes the nation after three years Uni and I am fuming.

They say it’s not real debt and It doesn’t affect a students ability to get loans such as mortgages - Maybe not but it sure as hell affects there ability to repay loans when the debt is being taken at source.
If this type of debt was being sold by ocean finance there sure as hell would be a mis selling scandal.

Is 18 too soon to be giving our kids decisions on debt that potentially will affect the rest of their lives ?

As an employer I can honestly say that a University degree does little to enhance a thirty somethings job prospects (Supply Chain) as there are just so many of people with degrees now. I give much more weight to experience and social awareness than I do qualification's, so is there value in degrees ?

How many people who went to university instead of real work (4 years approx £60k debt) against 4 years of earning say 25k a year =£100k reckon that their degree has bridges the 160k plus interest gap ?

Helps to suppress wages though - when you hit a certain level a pay rise is useless unless its substantial and your student debt just swallows it - as my son has found out

 

[geoff hammond]

And why should I pay for that mistake? Where are the parents of these feckless drones walking into debt? Where do they think the money they are spending is coming from?

The brightest of the bright used to get admitted university, not so much now it seems.

Don’t worry you aren’t. They are.

I suggest very few families would be able to fund the £50k themselves. Are you suggesting university should be just for the rich?

 

[mexico1970]

Don’t worry you aren’t. They are.

I suggest very few families would be able to fund the £50k themselves. Are you suggesting university should be just for the rich?

No, I am suggesting too many people go to university. The very brightest should get scholarships. What makes you think that people who go to work should pay for others education? If you want a better career then pay for it yourself.

 

[geoff hammond]

No, I am suggesting too many people go to university. The very brightest should get scholarships. What makes you think that people who go to work should pay for others education? If you want a better career then pay for it yourself.

I agree the bar is too low. But I have never suggested you , or anyone else , should pay for my son’s education. Unfortunately for him , my point is that the the educational service he is receiving is not worth cost charged.

 

[mexico1970]

I agree the bar is too low. But I have never suggested you , or anyone else , should pay for my son’s education. Unfortunately for him , my point is that the the educational service he is receiving is not worth cost charged.

Absolutely mate, on that point we are very much agreed.

 

[ell]

When I was at school/6th form, they effectively forced you into applying for Uni. Entire hour long lessons where you had to sort out your UCAS, if you told them you didn't want to go to uni you sat in the corner doing any other work you could.

In summer they put a big banner outside declaring what % of pupils went onto Uni.

 

[anyoldblu]

A degree meant a lot when only 4% of school leavers went to university, now more school leavers go than don't and that's just to feed the business of learning.

Imagine what the unemployment figures would be if universities were prevented their grift?

Agree - when I went in 1985, 14% of school leavers were going to university or a polytechnic. Now it's 35%. That's a massive oversupply and has seen qualification inflation for many roles which used to be open to school leavers.

My kids have both gone, though both have studied professional degrees, with a high bar to entry and very demanding courses. If they hadn't got into those, I would have been pushing them to do apprenticeships.

If you're part of the 20% cohort gap that wouldn't have made it in the 80's you should take a long, hard look at the decision to go to Uni.

 

[117 M34]

Agree there are far too many going to university now and many of those will be doing a degree that will make zero impact on their future career.

Also worth noting that universities are losing awful lots of money. Wonder how they would cope if less people were attending.

 

[mexico1970]

Agree there are far too many going to university now and many of those will be doing a degree that will make zero impact on their future career.

Also worth noting that universities are losing awful lots of money. Wonder how they would cope if less people were attending.

38 universities in 1980 and 166 universities available now, someone is making a profit. Maybe thinning them out would mean that the universities that are still available can make more?

The answer lies in either less people attending or fewer universities that will offer quality over quantity?