Student Debt

[117 M34]

38 universities in 1980 and 166 universities available now, someone is making a profit. Maybe thinning them out would mean that the universities that are still available can make more?

The answer lies in either less people attending or fewer universities that will offer quality over quantity?

Yes some are doing well still.
40% make a loss

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to be salty!

Will be >£100k poorer than if I’d been born a year earlier. And it’s only getting worse for the newer students.

Why would you not just pay it off in a year if you're on that sort of money?

 

[I'm With Stupid]

No, I am suggesting too many people go to university. The very brightest should get scholarships. What makes you think that people who go to work should pay for others education? If you want a better career then pay for it yourself.

I mean that's what literally happens for every level before degree level, and used to happen for degree level too. So I guess the question is why people who work should pay for anyone's education. I don't have kids. Why am I paying for your brats? But of course the real answer is because someone paid for me when I was a kid, and now I have to return the favour. There are very few people in the country that aren't in 18 years of debt to society for all sorts of shit by the time they get to the workplace and start moaning about having to pay for the next generation.

I mean we can have a discussion about the practical realities, but you seem to have an issue with the very concept.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

People are moaning about student fees but there’s more earning opportunities now than 40 years ago. Work overseas, start your own business, that was all a lot more complicated in the past. You can work your way up the ladder a lot faster now it seems too and to get a good salary you used to have to work for one of the big names whereas it could be anywhere now.

Life’s just different and it ain’t changing soon.

 

[mexico1970]

I mean that's what literally happens for every level before degree level, and used to happen for degree level too. So I guess the question is why people who work should pay for anyone's education. I don't have kids. Why am I paying for your brats? But of course the real answer is because someone paid for me when I was a kid, and now I have to return the favour. There are very few people in the country that aren't in 18 years of debt to society for all sorts of shit by the time they get to the workplace and start moaning about having to pay for the next generation.

I mean we can have a discussion about the practical realities, but you seem to have an issue with the very concept.

I have an issue with what was 4% of people who went to university compared to the saturation levels we are at now for what is very little return, it's not hard to grasp.

Gifted children whose parents can't afford it should get scholarships, but they have to have the ability. Just because you got a freebie doesn't mean everyone should time has moved on.

FWIW nobody from my social circle went to university so they went to work instead, but as I said I am chuffed you got a freebie.

 

[anyoldblu]

People are moaning about student fees but there’s more earning opportunities now than 40 years ago. Work overseas, start your own business, that was all a lot more complicated in the past. You can work your way up the ladder a lot faster now it seems too and to get a good salary you used to have to work for one of the big names whereas it could be anywhere now.

Life’s just different and it ain’t changing soon.

Work overseas - err, Brexit.
Start your own business - always been an option.

And the "graduate premium" has dropped from 150-200K in 1985 to 100-130K in 2015 to an estimated 90-130K in 2025. That's all in today's values. Oversupply and demand.

The big salaries are there, just more limited. For each millionaire, there will be plenty grinding along on small incomes.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I have an issue with what was 4% of people who went to university compared to the saturation levels we are at now for what is very little return, it's not hard to grasp.

Gifted children whose parents can't afford it should get scholarships, but they have to have the ability. Just because you got a freebie doesn't mean everyone should time has moved on.

FWIW nobody from my social circle went to university so they went to work instead, but as I said I am chuffed you got a freebie.

You got 11 years of freebies mate. Primary school all the way to the end of secondary. £8,210 per year at current funding levels for a total bill of £90,310 plus interest. Where should we send the bill?

I got tuition fees paid because my parents didn't earn enough (exactly what you just argued for), but I still had to take out a loan for the living costs.

 

[anyoldblu]

Gifted children whose parents can't afford it should get scholarships, but they have to have the ability. Just because you got a freebie doesn't mean everyone should time has moved on.

We did. It was called a full grant with no tuition fees. If you could get the A Levels, you could afford to go to Uni.

 

[mexico1970]

Work overseas - err, Brexit.
Start your own business - always been an option.

And the "graduate premium" has dropped from 150-200K in 1985 to 100-130K in 2015 to an estimated 90-130K in 2025. That's all in today's values. Oversupply and demand.

The big salaries are there, just more limited. For each millionaire, there will be plenty grinding along on small incomes.

33% of people over 16in the UK have a degree now, they are going to have to manufacture a super degree to sift out candidates for the good jobs.

 

[Citizen of Legoland]

Work overseas - err, Brexit.
Start your own business - always been an option.

And the "graduate premium" has dropped from 150-200K in 1985 to 100-130K in 2015 to an estimated 90-130K in 2025. That's all in today's values. Oversupply and demand.

The big salaries are there, just more limited. For each millionaire, there will be plenty grinding along on small incomes.

I know a few who’ve gone to Dubai, Brexit just hampered Euro aspirations.

When I left uni I had a choice of two jobs local to me, a factory job and an office job. Finding a job meant trawling through the MEN job pages every Thursday, no LinkedIn or online job sites. No advice available on different careers, different countries to go to. I agree the student loans are high, and I spent £40k of my own money supporting my 2 kids through uni too, but life is what it is. Downsides and upsides.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

I know a few who’ve gone to Dubai, Brexit just hampered Euro aspirations.

When I left uni I had a choice of two jobs local to me, a factory job and an office job. Finding a job meant trawling through the MEN job pages every Thursday, no LinkedIn or online job sites. No advice available on different careers, different countries to go to. I agree the student loans are high, and I spent £40k of my own money supporting my 2 kids through uni too, but life is what it is. Downsides and upsides.

Honestly mate, that's like saying that it was harder to find love because you didn't have Tinder. Trust me, those things don't make things easier, they just make it easier for companies to post tonnes of jobs that don't exist and get loads of candidates to train their latest AI screening process, or make it so quick to apply for a job that your application never gets seen.

But a quick point about working abroad, because I've done it for 15 years. The first question every country will ask you when you want a work visa is 'Where's your degree?' No degree, no visa, almost without exception. Kinda like how our country will only allow 'skilled migrants' in. The exception used to be the EU. Maybe Australia in the case of a few skilled trades.

 

[Silva Citizen]

I mean that's what literally happens for every level before degree level, and used to happen for degree level too. So I guess the question is why people who work should pay for anyone's education. I don't have kids. Why am I paying for your brats? But of course the real answer is because someone paid for me when I was a kid, and now I have to return the favour. There are very few people in the country that aren't in 18 years of debt to society for all sorts of shit by the time they get to the workplace and start moaning about having to pay for the next generation.

I mean we can have a discussion about the practical realities, but you seem to have an issue with the very concept.

If memory serves me correctly it was Corbyn campaigning that kids from poorer areas didn’t get the chances others did. So to put more kids into education moderate charges and loan system was introduced . As with everything to do with government the powers that be abuse it and push it up ( remember when VAT was 5% ? ). So what was a well intentioned change to the system has become a monster and a mill round the necks of many (some not so young now) people. I treat starts accumulating from the day you start study not when you qualify (leave) so we give the kids a loan that accumulates at around 5 percent for 3 years before they can think of offsetting it. If they owe £60k when they leave I think they need to be earning around £65 k before the monthly payment starts to reduce the balance. So how many years do you work with an accumulating balance before you start to pay it down.
All those years they are taking payments reducing your ability to buy a house or put into pensions.

 

[anyoldblu]

33% of people over 16in the UK have a degree now, they are going to have to manufacture a super degree to sift out candidates for the good jobs.

It's called a First from a top uni. However, don't get me started on First Class Honours inflation.

 

[mexico1970]

It's called a First from a top uni. However, don't get me started on First Class Honours inflation.

The first 15 years of my working life I worked abroad and that's without a scroll ;-)

 

[I'm With Stupid]

If memory serves me correctly it was Corbyn campaigning that kids from poorer areas didn’t get the chances others did. So to put more kids into education moderate charges and loan system was introduced . As with everything to do with government the powers that be abuse it and push it up ( remember when VAT was 5% ? ). So what was a well intentioned change to the system has become a monster and a mill round the necks of many (some not so young now) people. I treat starts accumulating from the day you start study not when you qualify (leave) so we give the kids a loan that accumulates at around 5 percent for 3 years before they can think of offsetting it. If they owe £60k when they leave I think they need to be earning around £65 k before the monthly payment starts to reduce the balance. So how many years do you work with an accumulating balance before you start to pay it down.
All those years they are taking payments reducing your ability to buy a house or put into pensions.

All of that is true, but it's worth mentioning that it's a choice to give them a loan that accumulates at that rate. Mine attracted interest at the current rate of inflation only, meaning that you effectively paid back what you borrowed. They deliberately changed that a while ago, so they're not just charging for university, they're profiteering off people taking out these loans, kinda like they do in America.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The first 15 years of my working life I worked abroad and that's without a scroll ;-)

Where? It's pretty difficult to do nowadays, at least for anywhere reputable with proper visas in place. Even developing countries will almost always ask for one.

 

[Silva Citizen]

All of that is true, but it's worth mentioning that it's a choice to give them a loan that accumulates at that rate. Mine attracted interest at the current rate of inflation only, meaning that you effectively paid back what you borrowed. They deliberately changed that a while ago, so they're not just charging for university, they're profiteering off people taking out these loans, kinda like they do in America.

That’s my point - they are profiteering. But they don’t show the kids any repayment examples like they would have to for a commercial loan. To the best of my knowledge schools don’t point out the financial downsides to them. Only miserable bastard dads do that, and this is at a point everyone around them is encouraging them to gain independence at Uni.

 

[mexico1970]

Where? It's pretty difficult to do nowadays, at least for anywhere reputable with proper visas in place. Even developing countries will almost always ask for one.

It was a considerable while ago, I am no spring chicken. However I know of 2 young families who moved to Canada because of the skills they had.

Also my eldest is doing a stint in Norway right now, it's not all about degrees mate.

 

[Silva Citizen]

It was a considerable while ago, I am no spring chicken. However I know of 2 young families who moved to Canada because of the skills they had.

Also my eldest is doing a stint in Norway right now, it's not all about degrees mate.

And that’s what schools should tell kids to allow them to make informed decisions

 

[mexico1970]

And that’s what schools should tell kids to allow them to make informed decisions

You can work in the EU if you fall into their skill shortage list too, you're right they should inform them of every option.