Middle East Conflict | Netanyahu orders strikes on Gaza (p1161)

gordondaviesmoustache said:
The two countries have been at war for decades. This is just another phase.

There is fault on both sides.
Click to expand...

Another phase in which israel was the aggressor in an unprovoked attack that's murdered over 2 hundred Iranian civilians and set back any chance of peace years or even decades

Iran was in negotiations with the US at the time of attack. Negotiations were looking positive with Trump saying they were close to a deal in May - "Trump described the latest talks between the two countries, which ended on Sunday, as "very serious negotiations" for "long-term peace"." - Link

Talks were ongoing. Then israel (who brag about their precision missiles) ended negotiations with their unprovoked attack in which they targetted/murdered the Iranian senior advisor who was overseeing negotiations. Negotiations have obviously stopped since then. Why would you target negotiators if you wanted peace? You wouldn't.

Israel doesn't want peace. Israel wants war and other people's land. The giveaway is that they keep starting wars and stealing other people's land.
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Another phase in which israel was the aggressor in an unprovoked attack that's murdered over 2 hundred Iranian civilians and set back any chance of peace years or even decades

Iran was in negotiations with the US at the time of attack. Negotiations were looking positive with Trump saying they were close to a deal in May - "Trump described the latest talks between the two countries, which ended on Sunday, as "very serious negotiations" for "long-term peace"." - Link

Talks were ongoing. Then israel (who brag about their precision missiles) ended negotiations with their unprovoked attack in which they targetted/murdered the Iranian senior advisor who was overseeing negotiations. Negotiations have obviously stopped since then. Why would you target negotiators if you wanted peace? You wouldn't.

Israel doesn't want peace. Israel wants war and other people's land. The giveaway is that they keep starting wars and stealing other people's land.
Click to expand...
It's easy for me to say this, sat on my sofa in Somerset. But, would it have not been more prudent for Iran to have turned the other cheek and continued negotiations with the Americans?
I can't understand how calling off the talks and retaliating actually benefits the Iranians.
Unless the Iranians had absolutely no intention of ceasing nuclear activities and were just going to string the Americans along, their response makes absolutely no sense.
 
Nightmare Walking said:
It's easy for me to say this, sat on my sofa in Somerset. But, would it have not been more prudent for Iran to have turned the other cheek and continued negotiations with the Americans?
I can't understand how calling off the talks and retaliating actually benefits the Iranians.
Unless the Iranians had absolutely no intention of ceasing nuclear activities and were just going to string the Americans along, their response makes absolutely no sense.
Click to expand...

Whilst israel is killing their negotiators!?

Whilst they're being aggressively bombed and israel is assassinating their top leaders and scientists (scientists are civlians btw - another israeli war crime), and whilst israelis' are setting off car bombs in Tehran (Link)? The true definition of terrorism.

If Iran hadn't responded Israel would have carried on and would probably be occupying a 'buffer zone' in Iran by now (stealing other people's land again). They had to respond otherwise israel would carry on their multi front rampage with impunity, like they've done in Gaza and elsewhere for that past 20 months (plus decades more).

Iran are already looking for peace:

"A regional diplomat close to Tehran said Araqchi had told Witkoff that Tehran "could show flexibility in the nuclear issue" if Washington pressured Israel to end the war.

A European diplomat said: "Araqchi told Witkoff Iran was ready to come back to nuclear talks, but it could not if Israel continued its bombing."


Hopefully israel doesn't sabotage more peace talks and murder more people.

Anyone know how many Palestinians israel has murdered so far today?
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Another phase in which israel was the aggressor in an unprovoked attack that's murdered over 2 hundred Iranian civilians and set back any chance of peace years or even decades

Iran was in negotiations with the US at the time of attack. Negotiations were looking positive with Trump saying they were close to a deal in May - "Trump described the latest talks between the two countries, which ended on Sunday, as "very serious negotiations" for "long-term peace"." - Link

Talks were ongoing. Then israel (who brag about their precision missiles) ended negotiations with their unprovoked attack in which they targetted/murdered the Iranian senior advisor who was overseeing negotiations. Negotiations have obviously stopped since then. Why would you target negotiators if you wanted peace? You wouldn't.

Israel doesn't want peace. Israel wants war and other people's land. The giveaway is that they keep starting wars and stealing other people's land.
Click to expand...
Agree with much of what you say there mate, but it wasn’t an unprovoked attack. Unprovoked connotes an absence of culpability. Iran, though its proxies, has been waging war on Israel for decades. It does not think a Jewish state should exist in the region, which should exclusively be Muslim states according to their doctrine, and although it’s been unclear what the mechanism for effectuating the removal of the State of Israel would be, it certainly wouldn’t be pretty.

The notion that the Jewish people were going to meekly accept a reversal of the existence of the state of Israel is risible, but that has been the cornerstone of Iranian foreign policy for approaching half a century now.

If Iran had taken a more realistic, pragmatic and less racist view to the existence of Israel, as many of the Gulf states have, then the wider landscape could look very different, including Israel’s disposition towards a peaceful settlement. Ii’s unlikely in those circumstances that Netanyahu would be in charge.

I’m not here to defend the government of Israel, and don’t believe I’ve ever done so, and certainly it is committing war crimes, and I also accept that the way Israel was formed was appallingly conceived, but we are where we are, and the notion that the solution to the issue (a view that is held by Iran) is to obliterate the State of Israel, is completely unrealistic and therefore a waste of emotional energy pursuing as a policy.

The issue of what is happening in Gaza and Iran in relation to Israel are wholly distinct from each other in my eyes.
 
The Iranians I know in Manchester absolutely detest the current regime. Iran’s best chance for a prosperous future is for them to overthrow the mullahs. Initially bring back the Shah’s son as a focal point, then take it from there. Before the revolution they had a continuous 3,500 year history under various dynasties that had its ups and downs but was relatively stable. The US and UK have a lot to answer for in the 1950s with the overthrow of Mossaddegh which led to the country becoming an autocracy and sowed the seeds for the fundamentalists to take over in 1979.
 
west didsblue said:
The Iranians I know in Manchester absolutely detest the current regime. Iran’s best chance for a prosperous future is for them to overthrow the mullahs. Initially bring back the Shah’s son as a focal point, then take it from there. Before the revolution they had a continuous 3,500 year history under various dynasties that had its ups and downs but was relatively stable. The US and UK have a lot to answer for in the 1950s with the overthrow of Mossaddegh which led to the country becoming an autocracy and sowed the seeds for the fundamentalists to take over in 1979.
Click to expand...
There is no doubt that the US and the UK have huge amounts to answer for in the region, including Iran.
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Whilst israel is killing their negotiators!?

Whilst they're being aggressively bombed and israel is assassinating their top leaders and scientists (scientists are civlians btw - another israeli war crime), and whilst israelis' are setting off car bombs in Tehran (Link)? The true definition of terrorism.

If Iran hadn't responded Israel would have carried on and would probably be occupying a 'buffer zone' in Iran by now (stealing other people's land again). They had to respond otherwise israel would carry on their multi front rampage with impunity, like they've done in Gaza and elsewhere for that past 20 months (plus decades more).

Iran are already looking for peace:

"A regional diplomat close to Tehran said Araqchi had told Witkoff that Tehran "could show flexibility in the nuclear issue" if Washington pressured Israel to end the war.

A European diplomat said: "Araqchi told Witkoff Iran was ready to come back to nuclear talks, but it could not if Israel continued its bombing."


Hopefully israel doesn't sabotage more peace talks and murder more people.

Anyone know how many Palestinians israel has murdered so far today?
Click to expand...
Israel are going to continue to kill the Iranian hierarchy no matter what. They do what they want and fuck whoever objects. That's their attitude.
Iran may well give Israel a bloody nose. But, if they hit back too hard, the Americans will step in. That's exactly what the Israeli's want.
Now if Iran had come out after the first attacks and stated they were not going to retaliate and they were going to continue working towards a deal with the Americans, surely that would have left the Iranians in a stronger position to negotiate? If under those circumstances I don't see how Israel could have continued to attack.
 
The Fat el Hombre said:
Another phase in which israel was the aggressor in an unprovoked attack that's murdered over 2 hundred Iranian civilians and set back any chance of peace years or even decades

Iran was in negotiations with the US at the time of attack. Negotiations were looking positive with Trump saying they were close to a deal in May - "Trump described the latest talks between the two countries, which ended on Sunday, as "very serious negotiations" for "long-term peace"." - Link

Talks were ongoing. Then israel (who brag about their precision missiles) ended negotiations with their unprovoked attack in which they targetted/murdered the Iranian senior advisor who was overseeing negotiations. Negotiations have obviously stopped since then. Why would you target negotiators if you wanted peace? You wouldn't.

Israel doesn't want peace. Israel wants war and other people's land. The giveaway is that they keep starting wars and stealing other people's land.
Click to expand...
Iran has armed and supported Hezbollah and Hamas so surely this could be argued as self-defence because if Iran didn't do these things then they wouldn't get attacked pre-emptively or not. When did Israel attack Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait or Oman?

I don't agree with what Israel is doing but Iran have brought this upon themselves and they provably have because of their long history in arming militants and resistance forces whose only aim is to degrade/attack/destroy Israel. Those forces killed over 1,000 Israeli's in a single action on 7/10.

Nothing sums this up more than the forces favouring Iran who are now saying that Iran should be allowed to acquire a nuclear weapon simply because Israel has one. These are the people who supposedly support total non-proliferation however it just turns out that they're happy with nuclear weapons when it suits and ironically to enable Iran to commit genocide in Israel.

The only talks that can succeed are the ones where Iran unconditionally surrenders its nuclear goals but also surrenders its meddling within the region. If not then surely Israel will attempt to nullify such a regime if they have the means to do so? You can't justify self-defence and then oppose self-defence.

The Palestinian issue is something else entirely and Israel must be opposed but bullets can never succeed.
 
Nightmare Walking said:
Israel are going to continue to kill the Iranian hierarchy no matter what. They do what they want and fuck whoever objects. That's their attitude.
Iran may well give Israel a bloody nose. But, if they hit back too hard, the Americans will step in. That's exactly what the Israeli's want.
Now if Iran had come out after the first attacks and stated they were not going to retaliate and they were going to continue working towards a deal with the Americans, surely that would have left the Iranians in a stronger position to negotiate? If under those circumstances I don't see how Israel could have continued to attack.
Click to expand...
You'd think so but western media would have framed it in a way that would have allowed israel to carry on attacking and 'annexing' land

Re the last sentence - we thought similar multiple times before with israel mate. Remember after all the Israeli atrocities and war crimes when Rafah was supposedly a red line? Biden said it was Link. Israel flattened the place. Fast forward another year and israel has murdered tens of thousands more palestinians and is now holding them in cages whilst shooting them when they come for food and aid, whilst continuing to bomb them in their tents

Israeli continues to commit the worst atrocities with complete impunity, because western media and politicians continue to cover/bullshit for them, whilst also continuing to ignore international law. Dread to think what would be happening in Iran now if they hadn't fought back.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
Dunno, feels quite genocidal what Israel were doing to gaza. I know the reasons though. But it's children and babies they are killing now. That's quite wrong imo. No, its very very wrong. I don't want to support that.
Click to expand...
I agree it's genocide everywhere. Israelis in Gaza, Iran and Israel on each other and not least the Palestinans on October 7th on Israel, which has had terrible consequences in terms of innocent lives being lost on all sides... unintended (?) consequences eh?
 
I've mentioned it before but it needs repeating.

Palestinians are nominally Arabs but their DNA is as different to a Saudi as a Serbian is to a Brit.

The West tends to lump Arabs together as does Israel, who often say stuff like why don't other Arab countries take Palestinians in , we are so small.

Palestinian DNA can be traced back to Canaan which as readers of the Bible know predated the original Israel.

So not only do the Palestinians have more right to the land based on recent history but, it seems they predate the colonisers, especially European Jews, who possess as much as 60 percent European DNA.
 
www.mediaite.com

WATCH: Gaza Activists Sabotage Military Jets After Raiding UK’s Largest Air Base

Pro-Palestinian activists infiltrated Britain’s largest Royal Air Force (RAF) airbase to vandalize and sabotage planes it claims are used in Gaza.
www.mediaite.com www.mediaite.com

jacobin.com

French Dockers Block Weapons to Israel

Last Wednesday, workers at a port in southern France searched a cargo ship headed for Haifa — and found it carried 19 pallets of machine-gun parts. They blocked the shipment, refusing to be complicit in Israel’s war crimes.
jacobin.com jacobin.com

www.middleeastmonitor.com

Greek dockworkers block ammunition shipment to Israel – Middle East Monitor

<br /> <b>Warning</b>: Undefined variable $sm_desc in <b>/www/wwwroot/middleeastmonitor.com/wp-content/themes/memouk/header.php</b> on line <b>159</b><br /> ...
www.middleeastmonitor.com www.middleeastmonitor.com
 
The blue phantom said:
You can't even see the murder of Palestinians on the West Bank and having their land stolen is a problem. I've asked you numerous times if all the Settlers should be removed to which you refuse to answer.
Click to expand...
Errmm maybe look back at pur previous messages, rather than spout bullshit
 
inbetween said:
Iran's military is gone, its command structure has been wiped out. Their capability to wage war is effectively gone irrespective of their standing army so a negotiation to exit this war will happen or the regime will fall. Mossad has once again shown their extreme effectiveness.

I just feel sorry for the Iranian population, they had no say over their participation (whether right or wrong) and they're being dragged into war likely against their will. And some believe that Iranian's dying and further war is a good thing just in order to oppose Israel.... All whilst sat in their relative comfort in the west!
Click to expand...

I won’t underestimate them. They just launched 5 of their covert sejjid missiles, 2 were intercepted by iron dome, but 3 hit Israel. That’s a 60% rate.

It has been estimated that they have more than a hundred Sejjid missiles. And the sejjid is not the only unknown in their arsenal. There are other types they have created but they kept hidden geolocation wise like the Fatah missiles. Iran is a large territory and them missile launchers are mobile.
 
Last edited:
vmsuhail said:
The million troops are of no use as this is a battle in the skies and Iran have no competent modern aircrafts. They'll exchange a few blows with Israel to save face and that will be it. Khamenei's life is under threat and he has lost their top military personnel, and many of the missile launchers. I think he will give up the nuclear programme in exchange of lifting of sanctions if offered now.
Click to expand...

I’m not certain how many is many missile launchers, but a few hours ago a singular Iran missile reached Israel skies, the iron dome malfunctioned, and that missile landed on IDF’s technology area, some calls it IDF Technology Park.

It was hit by a single Iran missile. Somehow the interception wall malfunctioned and that missile wriggled through.

Regardless, Iran must stick to the higher horse and if diplomacy is gridlocked as how it is currently in Geneva, they must not strike purely civilian areas as how Israel has attacked and still been attacking Gaza.
 
cucumberman said:
I’m not certain how many is many missile launchers, but a few hours ago a singular Iran missile reached Israel skies, the iron dome malfunctioned, and that missile landed on IDF’s technology area, some calls it IDF Technology Park.

It was hit by a single Iran missile. Somehow the interception wall malfunctioned and that missile wriggled through.

Regardless, Iran must stick to the higher horse and if diplomacy is gridlocked as how it is currently in Geneva, they must not strike purely civilian areas as how Israel has attacked and still been attacking Gaza.
Click to expand...

are there many civilians left? Tens of thousands of dual passport holders have gone back to the States, to Poland and to Cyprus to name but a few - oddly in most of the interviews I have seen they say they are going "home" - I thought Israel was their home - the one God chose for them?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top