Grooming gang scandal

[Roachy]

Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

View attachment 160564Did they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.

I watched an interview the other day with the father of one of the abusers. He was a relatively well spoken chap and had made the choice to speak about it. There was no denial from him throughout that his dog of a son, and others, had committed some wrongdoing. However, the majority of the blame according to him, lay at the door of social workers and unbelievably the abused kids. The insinuation was that due to the way the girls were dressed and that they were openly hanging around, they were fair game. When the ages of the girls were highlighted, some 12 or 13 years old, he shrugged his shoulders.
So many knew but said and done nothing. Furthermore, those in positions of authority who suspected, knew and chose to turn a blind eye or suppressed investigations need naming and shaming. Police, social services, councils, local and national government are all culpable.

 

[johnnytapia]

Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

View attachment 160564Did they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.

Amen to all that.

 

[blueinsa]

Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

View attachment 160564Did they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.

Well said as always.

 

[KS55]

Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

View attachment 160564Did they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.

A few years ago, you may recall, a young woman of Pakistani origin went missing in Bradford. Her parents were convicted of murder several years later. The delay was because the police got no cooperation from the community. It was believed that many people knew what had happened ie an honour killing by the family.
This is an example of a minority circling the wagons and keeping the enemy out. Communities must be persuaded that this defensiveness is not in their long term interest. How, though? Is it just time so the third generation don’t feel under siege? The circle of wagons gives ammunition to racists.
I get the feeling that things are shifting albeit slowly. There are many more middle class professionals (lawyers, doctors) from the community and the wagon circling is very much a working class phenomenon.

 

[KS55]

I watched an interview the other day with the father of one of the abusers. He was a relatively well spoken chap and had made the choice to speak about it. There was no denial from him throughout that his dog of a son, and others, had committed some wrongdoing. However, the majority of the blame according to him, lay at the door of social workers and unbelievably the abused kids. The insinuation was that due to the way the girls were dressed and that they were openly hanging around, they were fair game. When the ages of the girls were highlighted, some 12 or 13 years old, he shrugged his shoulders.
So many knew but said and done nothing. Furthermore, those in positions of authority who suspected, knew and chose to turn a blind eye or suppressed investigations need naming and shaming. Police, social services, councils, local and national government are all culpable.

Victim blaming in these cases is common from all quarters. The police have often regarded these girls as amateur prostitutes who chose a lifestyle which echoes what you say about the guy who spoke out.

 

[meltonblue]

Victim blaming in these cases is common from all quarters. The police have often regarded these girls as amateur prostitutes who chose a lifestyle which echoes what you say about the guy who spoke out.

Yep and not just the police, society in general had a similar mindset in a few areas, I heard it a lot in Telford.

 

[Roachy]

Victim blaming in these cases is common from all quarters. The police have often regarded these girls as amateur prostitutes who chose a lifestyle which echoes what you say about the guy who spoke out.

I have very little time for the police tbh. I've had dealings with them over the years, both in my previous occupation and occasionally as an "end user". I admit they have an incredibly difficult job to do at times, but they get it badly wrong on so many occasions concerning very serious issues.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

I think the same about the boats on the Channel.

Do people want to solve the problem or not? Because the solution is more money for the Coast Guard. We have a vaguely functional country that almost two decades of austerity has destroyed and now real people are seeing the results, conveniently after all the cowards who voted for it have left Government.

What are we trying to achieve? I think the boat crossings are bad so I think we should give money to the Coast Guard who are trained and equipped to deal with boat crossings. I think the grooming gangs are bad so I think we should give money to the people who identify and deal with child sexual abuse. I don't know what other people want or are trying to achieve. We have problems and we have departments that solve those problems. So if these are now a priority then fund them correctly. This isn't some high IQ nuanced solution I know, but it will actually work, if people actually wanted to solve the problem.

Give more money to the coastguard, they'll just buy a bigger boat so they can ferry more people ashore, more money to the people dealing with grooming gangs, they'll just buy a bigger brush to sweep more under the carpet!

 

[Vic]

Firstly, to be clear, I believe the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families.

Now to go off at a tangent . When I was a kid, in my area , the population would have been 99% white . If anyone was suspected / charged with being a nonce, the minimum said nonce could expect was their windows put through, maybe paint daubed on the property . If it was more certain, the door broken down and beaten to a pulp or if they were well barricaded in then setting fire to the property to flush them out would have been considered reasonable . I am not condoning that, just making the point that there was zero tolerance of sexual abuse of children ( at least by third parties) in that community.

So compare that with the response of the Pakistani / Muslim communities these Rape gang offenders originate from.
I have seen several call for Pakistani / Muslim leaders to speak out in support of Baroness Casey's findings and recommendations - The silence is deafening . But it always is.!
Here is the headline of an article I have posted before from the Guardian ( must be right) of an interview with Nazir Afsal - where he addresses this issue in Bradford and asks the community to take responsibility for the grooming issue. The article is 11 years old.

View attachment 160564Did they take responsibility for? Did they speak out - Did they fuck.

Why not ? These are tight communities with strong patriarchal clans, they know who these people are, they know what is happening but they stay silent.
Whenever a gang is convicted there are some official comments of disapproval, but that's it.
Why aren't they reporting these people to the police ?
Why are they not ostracised in their community ?
Why do the Imams not speak out ?
Why does the community not take responsibility ?

This is not just an issue about a small minority of abusers, it is an issue for the communities themselves that allow this to thrive amongst them.
Of course it is neither fair nor correct to tarnish the whole community as abusers but by remaining silent they are enablers .
Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.
Rather than asking glib questions like " All of them" it might be time to ask yourself how you might challenge the Pakistani / Muslim community to really start helping themselves and community relations by identifying what they stand for and publicly ostracise these people.
They should be putting them on the plane back to Pakistan themselves.

Muslim religious leaders condemn child sex grooming

The sexual grooming of children is condemned by Muslim leaders across the UK in a sermon read to thousands of worshippers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Faith leaders in Bradford join forces in new programme aiming to educate people on child sex abuse

FAITH and community leaders in Bradford are joining forces to educate parents and communities on how to deal with child sexual abuse, following…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

 

[BobKowalski]

Victim blaming in these cases is common from all quarters. The police have often regarded these girls as amateur prostitutes who chose a lifestyle which echoes what you say about the guy who spoke out.

Agreed. How was the victim dressed? Was she drunk? Was she flirting? Was she ‘asking for it’? Not just the police, it’s a cultural and institutional mindset and it’s why most rapes go unreported and conviction rates are low.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

The circle of wagons gives ammunition to racists.

Why just chuck the racist word in, do you believe those trying to break the circle of wagons are racist, it's shit like that why they were able to abuse countless children for so long, because of the police, social workers, councillors ect being afraid of being labelled a racist

 

[Damocles]

Give more money to the coastguard, they'll just buy a bigger boat so they can ferry more people ashore, more money to the people dealing with grooming gangs, they'll just buy a bigger brush to sweep more under the carpet!

Ok let's do nothing instead because you're a cynical.

 

[KS55]

Why just chuck the racist word in, do you believe those trying to break the circle of wagons are racist, it's shit like that why they were able to abuse countless children for so long, because of the police, social workers, councillors ect being afraid of being labelled a racist

Another one, making up my motivation for me. Fuck off.

 

[KS55]

I have very little time for the police tbh. I've had dealings with them over the years, both in my previous occupation and occasionally as an "end user". I admit they have an incredibly difficult job to do at times, but they get it badly wrong on so many occasions concerning very serious issues.

Quite often it is poor training. Some need strong leadership as some are none too bright.I had one recently who told me the common law did not exist. I asked him for the words used when charging someone with murder.

 

[oldius]

Agreed. How was the victim dressed? Was she drunk? Was she flirting? Was she ‘asking for it’? Not just the police, it’s a cultural and institutional mindset and it’s why most rapes go unreported and conviction rates are low.

It definitely remains true that in the media, women are treated appallingly, especially those who dare to enter traditionally masculine arenas. This level of misogyny has a big impact in the search for justice, even down to whether abusers are reported in the first place, or not.

 

[mind your car Mr?]

Ok let's do nothing instead because you're a cynical.

Not cynical, just realistic

 

[mind your car Mr?]

Another one, making up my motivation for me. Fuck off.

AS the priest said to the naughy schoolboy after being told to fuck off. No, you Fuck off

 

[Hertzblue]

Muslim religious leaders condemn child sex grooming

The sexual grooming of children is condemned by Muslim leaders across the UK in a sermon read to thousands of worshippers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Faith leaders in Bradford join forces in new programme aiming to educate people on child sex abuse

FAITH and community leaders in Bradford are joining forces to educate parents and communities on how to deal with child sexual abuse, following…

www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk

Well done, you managed to find one example of Muslim community leaders speaking out about child grooming in their community. . It's 12 years old, I searched that charity to see if they followed up that work - nothing , now disbanded.
Surely if you do an internet search and this all you get then it proves the point , that nothing is said or done by the Pakistani /muslim community . This was said in 2013 , you cannot be serious, surely only pedantry could motivate posting that.
I think you have validated a paticular paragraph in my post

Maybe one reason they don't speak out is because they don't feel they have to , after all they have an army of useful idiots in the form of the progressive left to maintain denial , deflect and obfuscate on the issue and keep playing the race card on their behalf.

If the cap fits Vic.

 

[KS55]

AS the priest said to the naughy schoolboy after being told to fuck off. No, you Fuck off

Don’t worry I won’t be responding to someone with the comprehension skills of a ten year old.

 

[Vic]

Well done, you managed to find one example of Muslim community leaders speaking out about child grooming in their community. . It's 12 years old, I searched that charity to see if they followed up that work - nothing , now disbanded.
Surely if you do an internet search and this all you get then it proves the point , that nothing is said or done by the Pakistani /muslim community . This was said in 2013 , you cannot be serious, surely only pedantry could motivate posting that.
I think you have validated a paticular paragraph in my post

If the cap fits Vic.

I hope you feel better for that.

If you mean TAG it wasn't a charity. Maybe Ali felt it had done its job. He's been on Newsnight since.

And maybe you didn't read the bit about those who thought having a sermon against child abuse was a mistake, as it might imply that people in mosques didn't already know it was wrong (and would play into the hands of far-right groups). But the vast majority of the UK Pakistani population have nothing to do with the rape gangs and are getting about living their lives peaceably with their families (so you said) so I'm not sure what your point is.

It seemed to be that where you grew up, someone suspected of being a nonce would have their windows put through, but that didn't happen in the Muslim community because (e.g.) they are "tight communities with strong patriarchal clans". You cited an article from 2014 (by a Muslim) saying Muslims should speak out, and when I cited an article from the year before to show it had already happened, you call it pedantry.