The Album Review Club - Week #192 (page 1292) - 3ft High & Rising - De La Soul

[RobMCFC]

Technical Note:

The Blue Moon Forum has moved to 20 posts per page (as opposed to 10) - see the Techincal Queries sub-forum.
This means that our page number index in post #1 is now wrong.
As Ric has said that the change is not necessarily permanent, I'm not going to update the index yet but will do so if the change is confirmed (and will be looking for volunteers to help me!).

 

[mrbelfry]

Many quality musicians can make reasonable facsimiles of other people’s music, especially other people’s good music. Should they get scores between 7 and 8 for doing so?

I hear what you're saying and I possibly over scored it based on an underscore the previous week. Throwing around yellow cards to even up a bad decision. 7.5 is probably a little high seeing as I've barely thought of this album all weekend.

I haven't got the energy to offer a defence today though sometimes there is little practical difference between a good fake and the original other than chronology and authorship. Obviously they are important factors but sometimes the homage or remake can supercede the original (can't think of any specific examples - brain no worky).

If I had more energy I'd possibly invoke a Ship of Theseus defence and take some huge liberties with history.

 

[mrbelfry]

I hear what you're saying and I possibly over scored it based on an underscore the previous week. Throwing around yellow cards to even up a bad decision. 7.5 is probably a little high seeing as I've barely thought of this album all weekend.

I haven't got the energy to offer a defence today though sometimes there is little practical difference between a good fake and the original other than chronology and authorship. Obviously they are important factors but sometimes the homage or remake can supercede the original (can't think of any specific examples - brain no worky).

If I had more energy I'd possibly invoke a Ship of Theseus defence and take some huge liberties with history.

Also I'd possibly attempt an argument that an exact copy of something could possibly redeem it from the reputation of a bad author. This may give it at least equal merit. For example if Bruno Mars remade Thriller note for note you possible remove some of the MJ ick some people may feel.

Also now thinking of a slightly different situation re: Taylor Swift and the Taylor's Version of some of her earlier albums. Which version has more merit? I know it's the same artist but it's different recordings so what's the actual thing that has the value? In this it can't be chronology

 

[threespires]

I hear what you're saying and I possibly over scored it based on an underscore the previous week. Throwing around yellow cards to even up a bad decision. 7.5 is probably a little high seeing as I've barely thought of this album all weekend.

I haven't got the energy to offer a defence today though sometimes there is little practical difference between a good fake and the original other than chronology and authorship. Obviously they are important factors but sometimes the homage or remake can supercede the original (can't think of any specific examples - brain no worky).

If I had more energy I'd possibly invoke a Ship of Theseus defence and take some huge liberties with history.

Quality rat hole to go down, so many questions..when is King Crimson not King Crimson? Why didn't Danny Boyle explore this theme better in Yesterday? Should Abba have given half of what they made from Mamma Mia to Bjorn Again?

 

[Coatigan]

Technical Note:

The Blue Moon Forum has moved to 20 posts per page (as opposed to 10) - see the Techincal Queries sub-forum.
This means that our page number index in post #1 is now wrong.
As Ric has said that the change is not necessarily permanent, I'm not going to update the index yet but will do so if the change is confirmed (and will be looking for volunteers to help me!).

Must be some clever mathematical formula to work it out so it is self-working.

@threespires, ever worked as a maths professor?

 

[Scoobz3]

I'll give it an 6.5 though I would give Feral Roots an eight plus anyday of the week ... a later much more accomplished work. For those that like a bit of rock give it ago if the other one doesn't really float your boat and see what you think. They are a very good group and deserve a lot more recognition. as I said before really worth seeing live.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fer...ate=ive&vld=cid:4645b988,vid:Ie-TK2jtzSU,st:0

 

[OB1]

I like Rival Sons. I have three of their albums but not this one, so good to hear it.

It raucous and raw and totally unoriginal, of course, but I may add it to my collection if I can find it for a sensible price.

7/10

 

[Black&White&BlueMoon Town]

Before the Fire - Rival Sons
What would one get if you mixed the vocals of Queen with the instruments of Led Zeppelin?

I offer this album from Rivals Sons as exhibit A. I'm with Foggy in that there is a difference between "sounds like" or "influenced by" vs. "derivitive of", and in too many places, this album for me sounded like the latter.

The first two tracks had me thinking, "oh, I could be listening to Led Zeppelin". And given where we are in the evolution of Rock and having recently seen Becoming Led Zeppelin on Netflix, I'm quite familiar again with every track on their first two albums. "Tell Me Something" had me thinking "Bring It On Home" in places. In "Lucky Girl", I wanted to sing "I-I-I-I-I'm not your Steppin' Stone" from the Monkeys. It wasn't intentional, but I could swear I was going to get one of those at one point.

Things got interesting on track 3 with "Memphis Sun", which on its own, went straight to my Memphis playlist for a themed song I did not have. I really liked this more slow-down blues driven song with its distinctive riff, that really was a unique guitar solo at 2:38 in until the conclusion. Well done, there.

I could swear I heard "Hey, Hey What Can I Do" when "Angel" opened, which by this point, became a game of 'find the riff', and probably not what I should have been focused on. A bit of "Traveling Riverside Blues" made me think I should be comparing notes with OB1 just to make sure. ;-)

By the time "Pocketful of Stones" started, I felt that "Dancing Days" (were) here again, to the point I had to do a search and see if it was just me. It wasn't.

I did enjoy "The Man Who Wasn't There" as something that I felt stood out on its own and had a bit of a psychedelic ending. "Pleasant Return" sounded a bit like The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" without the eastern influence there, and had some good bass work in it.

"On My Way" was a more vocal driven song and was where I heard the Queen influences a bit more. "I Want More" had that boogie-woogie style to Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Well" that I recognized.

"Flames Of Lanka" was a nice 5 minute trippy psychedelia piece that sounded almost Doors-like in its approach, just not with the vocals, but it had some nice jam spots in particular.

"Nanda-Nandana" flowed from that prior song and had a nice solo, but had too much of a "Nobody's Fault But Mine" vibe going on in places.

This was their opening album, so in some areas, I can give them a pass somewhat for what they are trying to do. I see they've had a long career and maybe there are others of their more recent works that seem less derivative as this one does. This one had some moments, especially in "Memphis Sun", but there wasn't as much I'd be latching onto. It's a 6/10 for the moments that shined and for the homage to the bands that originated the rock styles decades ago.

 

[threespires]

Must be some clever mathematical formula to work it out so it is self-working.

@threespires, ever worked as a maths professor?

No but when I got roped into teaching
art appreciation to the Matsés on the Javari river, the lad who was teaching maths got hospitalised after he licked the kambô secretions off the wrong type of frog and obviously it was only polite to fill in for him for a week so don't know if that counts ?

 

[RobMCFC]

I'll give it an 6.5 though I would give Feral Roots an eight plus anyday of the week ... a later much more accomplished work. For those that like a bit of rock give it ago if the other one doesn't really float your boat and see what you think. They are a very good group and deserve a lot more recognition. as I said before really worth seeing live.

https://www.google.com/search?q=fer...ate=ive&vld=cid:4645b988,vid:Ie-TK2jtzSU,st:0

Congratulations - you are the 100th poster to post a score on this thread. You don't win anything but feel free to stick around and see what's coming up over the next weeks/months/years.

 

[RobMCFC]

Before the Fire – Rival Sons

I actually own two albums by Rival Sons, Great Western Valkyrie and Feral Roots, but I’d never heard this album, which is their debut.

Being familiar with two of their albums and now listening to Before the Fire, it’s obvious that vocalist Jay Buchanan is a terrific singer, a true frontman whose voice is both powerful and versatile enough to sit on top of the din that his band makes (in a good way).

Guitarist Scott Holiday also puts in an outstanding performance pretty much on every track. However, I didn’t feel that any track stood out over the other, which is a sign of the album’s track-to-track consistency but also that it feels that it’s lacking one or two songs that you’d add to that rock playlist, although there is a little of something in the Middle Eastern sounds of “Flames of Lanka” that would make me pick it as the best track.

There’s nothing wrong with this album, but coming a week after Greenleaf’s Hear the Rivers, it suffers a little in comparison. Where that to me sounded like it took a few chances sonically, Before the Fire feels like it’s just hitting the marks that rock fans expect without really pushing the envelope. You have to bear in mind that this is the band’s debut, and there was better to come. Great Western Valkyrie, for example, is a terrific blend of rock and soul that would have given Rival Sons an extra point, so 7/10 it is.

 

[OB1]

Before the Fire - Rival Sons
What would one get if you mixed the vocals of Queen with the instruments of Led Zeppelin?

I offer this album from Rivals Sons as exhibit A. I'm with Foggy in that there is a difference between "sounds like" or "influenced by" vs. "derivitive of", and in too many places, this album for me sounded like the latter.

The first two tracks had me thinking, "oh, I could be listening to Led Zeppelin". And given where we are in the evolution of Rock and having recently seen Becoming Led Zeppelin on Netflix, I'm quite familiar again with every track on their first two albums. "Tell Me Something" had me thinking "Bring It On Home" in places. In "Lucky Girl", I wanted to sing "I-I-I-I-I'm not your Steppin' Stone" from the Monkeys. It wasn't intentional, but I could swear I was going to get one of those at one point.

Things got interesting on track 3 with "Memphis Sun", which on its own, went straight to my Memphis playlist for a themed song I did not have. I really liked this more slow-down blues driven song with its distinctive riff, that really was a unique guitar solo at 2:38 in until the conclusion. Well done, there.

I could swear I heard "Hey, Hey What Can I Do" when "Angel" opened, which by this point, became a game of 'find the riff', and probably not what I should have been focused on. A bit of "Traveling Riverside Blues" made me think I should be comparing notes with OB1 just to make sure. ;-)

By the time "Pocketful of Stones" started, I felt that "Dancing Days" (were) here again, to the point I had to do a search and see if it was just me. It wasn't.

I did enjoy "The Man Who Wasn't There" as something that I felt stood out on its own and had a bit of a psychedelic ending. "Pleasant Return" sounded a bit like The Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" without the eastern influence there, and had some good bass work in it.

"On My Way" was a more vocal driven song and was where I heard the Queen influences a bit more. "I Want More" had that boogie-woogie style to Fleetwood Mac's "Oh Well" that I recognized.

"Flames Of Lanka" was a nice 5 minute trippy psychedelia piece that sounded almost Doors-like in its approach, just not with the vocals, but it had some nice jam spots in particular.

"Nanda-Nandana" flowed from that prior song and had a nice solo, but had too much of a "Nobody's Fault But Mine" vibe going on in places.

This was their opening album, so in some areas, I can give them a pass somewhat for what they are trying to do. I see they've had a long career and maybe there are others of their more recent works that seem less derivative as this one does. This one had some moments, especially in "Memphis Sun", but there wasn't as much I'd be latching onto. It's a 6/10 for the moments that shined and for the homage to the bands that originated the rock styles decades ago.

The Force is strong with these boys ;-)

 

[Coatigan]

Congratulations - you are the 100th poster to post a score on this thread. You don't win anything but feel free to stick around and see what's coming up over the next weeks/months/years.

Who was the 1st?

That's a claim to fame there.

 

[threespires]

This pick has raised an interesting ever present point. Is there any difference between an imitator and a 'revivalist', how do you tell the difference and is one better than the other anyway? To me I think there is a difference and Rival Sons are a decent enough example of this albeit you can't tell that exclusively from this one record.

To use the ship analogy, they definitely like the form and function of previous ocean going vessels and yes they have rebuilt one using modern materials but in using those materials it does become something different from the original and imo have some intrinsic value of its own. At one level a facsimile but at another a contemporaneous link to the past without simply being a vehicle for nostalgia.

If nothing else the change in recording methods in the interim years give it a different feel, though some will feel that's a problem I don't. But I think there's more to them than that, Buchanan has his own distinct voice and, most crucially for me, you hear across their catalogue a progression as they meld different influences into stuff that has it's own identity. Like a couple of others I would personally have chosen Feral Roots and if you listen to that it does have quite a different vibe to this I think.

If there was a four stage model that went (1) pastiche/tribute (2) imitator (3) revivalist (4) reinventor; I'd have RS as a 3, GVF as maybe a 2 based on at least some of their stuff. and someone like The Black Keys nudging a 4 on the basis they subvert their chosen genres a bit more. But back to a point I made in a previous post, a few years ago four Aussies who fell clearly in that first category were in no small part responsible for the rediscovery and huge second life of a pop band that were once pretty much dead and buried. So ultimately anyone of those four categories can have some merit.

Oh yes, back to the album. It's 7 for me whereas a couple of the others would score a point more. Still a very enjoyable pick though.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Who was the 1st?

That's a claim to fame there.

That acolade goes to @OB1 , giving Mellencamp a 10/10 score.

 

[bennyboy]

Decent enough but not my cup of tea.
The vocalist i have heard similar all my life and he did not stick out for me.
Same with the songs.Nothing bad but nothing stood out as well
Liked the guitar sound but musically and vocally not as good as last weeks pick...6/10.

 

[GornikDaze]

This pick has raised an interesting ever present point. Is there any difference between an imitator and a 'revivalist', how do you tell the difference and is one better than the other anyway? To me I think there is a difference and Rival Sons are a decent enough example of this albeit you can't tell that exclusively from this one record.

To use the ship analogy, they definitely like the form and function of previous ocean going vessels and yes they have rebuilt one using modern materials but in using those materials it does become something different from the original and imo have some intrinsic value of its own. At one level a facsimile but at another a contemporaneous link to the past without simply being a vehicle for nostalgia.

If nothing else the change in recording methods in the interim years give it a different feel, though some will feel that's a problem I don't. But I think there's more to them than that, Buchanan has his own distinct voice and, most crucially for me, you hear across their catalogue a progression as they meld different influences into stuff that has it's own identity. Like a couple of others I would personally have chosen Feral Roots and if you listen to that it does have quite a different vibe to this I think.

If there was a four stage model that went (1) pastiche/tribute (2) imitator (3) revivalist (4) reinventor; I'd have RS as a 3, GVF as maybe a 2 based on at least some of their stuff. and someone like The Black Keys nudging a 4 on the basis they subvert their chosen genres a bit more. But back to a point I made in a previous post, a few years ago four Aussies who fell clearly in that first category were in no small part responsible for the rediscovery and huge second life of a pop band that were once pretty much dead and buried. So ultimately anyone of those four categories can have some merit.

Oh yes, back to the album. It's 7 for me whereas a couple of the others would score a point more. Still a very enjoyable pick though.

That’s a couple of mentions for Feral Roots I think. My personal favourite is Great Western Valkyrie, although there are some great tracks on most of their albums.

I agree that there has been a lot of development since this album came out. They definitely aren’t unique, but they do what they do really well and have a great sound. Live, I’d say they are one of the best blues/rock bands out there at the moment (not including those acts that are doing their farewell again stuff that charge the earth for tickets).

Special shout out to @Coatigan who threw a comment in about The Devil and The Almighty Blues recently….. awesome!!!

 

[RobMCFC]

That’s a couple of mentions for Feral Roots I think. My personal favourite is Great Western Valkyrie, although there are some great tracks on most of their albums.

I agree that there has been a lot of development since this album came out. They definitely aren’t unique, but they do what they do really well and have a great sound. Live, I’d say they are one of the best blues/rock bands out there at the moment (not including those acts that are doing their farewell again stuff that charge the earth for tickets).

Special shout out to @Coatigan who threw a comment in about The Devil and The Almighty Blues recently….. awesome!!!

Given that Great Western Valkyrie is your favourite (it's mine too), I'm interested to know why you picked their debut.

 

[bennyboy]

Have Rival Sons got an live album released.

 

[GornikDaze]

Given that Great Western Valkyrie is your favourite (it's mine too), I'm interested to know why you picked their debut.

We have some very well informed posters who know their onions. I wanted to see how people felt about this one. I’m guilty of the “it’s not as good as their early stuff” for most of the music I listen to - but probably not in this case.

The Black Keys are definitely one where I much prefer the first 5-6 albums, but as Threespires alluded to, they do reinvent themselves, which isn’t always (to my taste) a good thing.

That said whether RS are blatantly copying, ripping off or whatever, I like his vocals and love the guitar sound. Personally I’d score this a 7 with GWV and 8.5 - I don’t do it for the fame of topping the list ;)