Tino Livramento

If he's very good defensively AND rapid then I could get behind it and forget being poor going forward. If someone offered you 22 year old Kyle Walker right now for 70mil you'd snap their hand off because he was arguably the most important player in terms of allowing us to play the highline, which is the foundation of Pepball.

As we did with Kev, you can negate the lack of attacking from RB by having our RCM do it. So could play Cherki there.
 
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Tugay One Cup said:
Every game. We've just conceded our most league goals in a campaign for 15 years. A big reason for that is that we had no defensive quality on the right side of our backline.

Our style of play has been and always will be vulnerable to counterattacks. It's absolutely necessary to have strong, aggressive defenders to cover that weakness.

We are currently a glass cannon and this has been proven to us again and again over the last twelve months.
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I get what you're saying, but I don't think Pep will want to cover a weakness, he'll want to prevent that weakness being an issue by keeping the ball better etc. At least based on how things have been done previously, there's a chance the new staff could persuade a change of approach.

I just don't think a different right-back will fix as much as people are hoping.
 
mattcity5 said:
Jesus. If you want to think about player X only being able to play this position and player Y this position, then just fucking get Warnock in and go 4-4-2.

We all know Pep likes midfielders playing everywhere, and that's because they are all comfortable on the ball, so you keep the ball better. Buying an English guy who only ever plays right-back goes against that a bit.
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He doesn't only play right back he played left back as well and has a reputation fro being pretty comfortable on the ball.
 
Cityfan said:
He doesn't only play right back he played left back as well and has a reputation fro being pretty comfortable on the ball.
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Occasionally on the left yes. Think it's more of a "if nobody else available" rather than a real option.

I just think comfortable on the ball for Newcastle or England u21s doesn't necessarily mean comfortable on it for us. We operate at a different level these days, or at least we try to.

I'm not being convinced by other options though, he's possibly the best choice we have if we decide to move in this window.
 
mattcity5 said:
I get what you're saying, but I don't think Pep will want to cover a weakness, he'll want to prevent that weakness being an issue by keeping the ball better
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If that was the case we'd play midfielders all across the back line. We need players who are strong in defensive situations and Pep values that. Look at who he's used throughout his career.

Again, if what you're saying was true, Kyle Walker wouldn't have been anywhere near as much if a success here. In fact, I doubt he would have been bought at all.

There is no scenario and no amount of passing that will stop us conceding chances. When those chances come, we can't afford to have defenders who can't defend.
 
01cravend said:
If he's very good defensively AND rapid then I could get behind it and forget being poor going forward. If someone offered you 22 year old Kyle Walker right now for 70mil you'd snap their hand off because he was arguably the most important player in terms of allowing us to play the highline, which is the foundation of Pepball.

As we did with Kev, you can negate the lack of attacking from RB by having our RCM do it. So could play Cherki there.
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I wont. I still think we overpaid for Kyle as is. I know im in the minority.

Kyle Walker was very good. At his peak he was individually one of the hardest defenders to get by cos he was strong, physical, arrogant in his craft, athletic and above all extremely fast.

But even at his peak, Walker was consistently prone to brain farts and he was one of the worst at staying in sync with his defensive teammates. He made up for it with immense athleticism. But the errors were consistent.

That said, assuming like you many would gladly pay 70 million for a 22 Kyle Walker. There is no guarantee this is 22 year old Kyle. He could be 22 year old Wan Bissaka. Who many forget now was q better defensive fullback than Kyle at Kyle's peak... But none of the other skills ever matured and he eventually faded into mid-tier football.

Mine you Tino's defensive numbers are no where close to Wan Bissaka's.


Personally, i wont put Cherki on the wing if the full sck isnt going to be attacking. That said, i actually think Tino is very good at overlapping, just not as accurate on his crosses yet.
 
Zenmanc said:
We'll be getting knicked for route 1 goals and break aways all season unless Pep loosens up his "must play a high line" mindset- great RB signing or not. I'm not sure Liver-n-mentos is that RB at this stage anyway.
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Or he could just consistently play his faster defenders when he wants to use it. Khuasa, Reis, Gvardiol and Akanji are fast for CBs. Nunes and O'Reilly' are fast for fullbacks. Reijnderd, Phil, Marmoush and Haaland

The speed team
Ederson
Nunes
Khusanov
Gvardiol
O'Reilly

Rodri
Reijnders
Foden

Marmoush
Haaland
Cherki

You can easily nullify most speed based cointers with this lineup.

Bring in Doku and RAN in rhe 2nd to kill off the tired legs.

That said, i think simply adding just Khusanov or even Reis for Dias, erases 75 % of the counters
 
Dax777 said:
I still think we overpaid for Kyle as is.
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Based on what? Because it certainly isn't based on his or our success on the pitch.

And, given none of us on here have the relevant financial qualifications to go over the economics with a fine tooth comb, I'd say footballing success is all we've got to go off.
 
Tugay One Cup said:
If that was the case we'd play midfielders all across the back line. We need players who are strong in defensive situations and Pep values that. Look at who he's used throughout his career.

Again, if what you're saying was true, Kyle Walker wouldn't have been anywhere near as much if a success here. In fact, I doubt he would have been bought at all.

There is no scenario and no amount of passing that will stop us conceding chances. When those chances come, we can't afford to have defenders who can't defend.
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There were times last season we had some of Gvardiol, Dias, Stones, Akanji, Walker, Ake in the lineup and yet couldn't defend. These are guys that clearly can defend, but it's harder because of how we lose the ball and how teams beat our ineffective press. One player who defends a bit better isn't going to fix this, we need to stop letting opposition players have time to make their passes against us. It's organizational more than a player issue.

Like I said though - he could be good. What I dont want (if we are after a right-back) is for us to end up with our 3rd or 4th choice. We need to get our main target, whoever that is.
 
Tugay One Cup said:
Based on what? Because it certainly isn't based on his or our success on the pitch.

And, given none of us on here have the relevant financial qualifications to go over the economics with a fine tooth comb, I'd say footballing success is all we've got to go off.
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I don't think whether we overpaid is based on our success on the field. Or else one can argue Grealish wasn't an overpay since we won the treble after paying 100 million for him.

I think we overpaid because the market value of a top fullback at the time was around 30 - 35 million. And we paid 50.

He was very good for us. Especially, 2018 to 2020 Kyle was shut down defensively. Bur we overpaid the position and he wasn't even a complete back.
 
Dax777 said:
I don't think whether we overpaid is based on our success on the field. Or else one can argue Grealish wasn't an overpay since we won the treble after paying 100 million for him.

I think we overpaid because the market value of a top fullback at the time was around 30 - 35 million. And we paid 50.

He was very good for us. Especially, 2018 to 2020 Kyle was shut down defensively. Bur we overpaid the position and he wasn't even a complete back.
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The treble was virtually the only season in which Grealish held down his position. Had he held down his position for every season in which he was here that argument would be reasonable.

Walker held down his position without any question with alternatives such as Danilo and Cancelo for at least six seasons. It wasn't until the treble season where he still played a very important role that he was ever not played other than through injury or rest.Walkers value was through many trophies over many seasons Grealishs value to us is based almost entirely on a single season.
 
Cityfan said:
The treble was virtually the only season in which Grealish held down his position. Had he held down his position for every season in which he was here that argument would be reasonable.

Walker held down his position without any question with alternatives such as Danilo and Cancelo for at least six seasons. It wasn't until the treble season where he still played a very important role that he was ever not played other than through injury or rest.Walkers value was through many trophies over many seasons Grealishs value to us is based almost entirely on a single season.
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Fair point. I concede the comparison wasn't fair.

I suppose a better wat to pit it is that Walker matched the production his fee suggested.
 
mattcity5 said:
There were times last season we had some of Gvardiol, Dias, Stones, Akanji, Walker, Ake in the lineup and yet couldn't defend. These are guys that clearly can defend, but it's harder because of how we lose the ball and how teams beat our ineffective press. One player who defends a bit better isn't going to fix this, we need to stop letting opposition players have time to make their passes against us. It's organizational more than a player issue.

Like I said though - he could be good. What I dont want (if we are after a right-back) is for us to end up with our 3rd or 4th choice. We need to get our main target, whoever that is.
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Its hard to explain this point to many. Great attempt.
 
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