Palestine Action

[Vic]

Not every illegal action results in a charge. Depends on what the court decides.

You appear to be a "everyone to the gullotine" type of chap, zero chill. As I said, being arrested is not in itself a crime. Palestine Action has been declared by our UK Parliament, to be an illegal terrorist organisation. That is a current fact, air your beef with them, i'm just highlighting that reality. Depending on the severity of that association per individual will determine how the UK courts wil proceed.

This is elemetary stuff to understand, pal.

Weirder and weirder. Are you now suggesting the police arrest people without obeying the law and saying what crime they were being arrested for?

And the courts don't decide who gets charged. Elementary legal stuff.

To Brisbane and beyond...

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Parliament decided that. The British public votes on Parliament.

But again, that is NOT why Palestine Action have been declared a terrorist organisation. Their prominant and active members have show public support for Hamas, which is illegal. That is why they have been declared a terrorist group and illegal. The RAF action just gained public attention.

You said it yourself. That's already illegal, so why not charge those individuals with supporting a terrorist organisation?

 

[Metal Biker]

You said it yourself. That's already illegal, so why not charge those individuals with supporting a terrorist organisation?

The group itself has. They've had members who have shown support of Hamas, so the entire group has been declared a terror organisation.

Have an issue with that, take it up with Parliament. They made the decision, not I. But the law is the Law is the law.

 

[Postman Pep]

Stop it. Or provide some evidence.

No doubt you'll choose not to.

There appears to be none forthcoming. Just endless repetition.

 

[Vic]

Because we live in a flimsy country. We have a law where it is illegal to obstruct a road and yet the Police have always facilitated the right for Just Stop Oil to protest by obstructing roads.

The only reason for the proscription of Palestine Action is to deter further action because harsher action can be taken through the application of terror laws. Or is it preferable that the courts facilitate the legal ability to enter an RAF station and damage/sabotage defence assets?

Very little will happen to anybody else just as nothing ever happens to the many who proclaim support for Hamas.

So they are applying terror laws so as to deter action by calling it terrorism. That sums it up. It's convenient.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The group itself has. They've had members who have shown support of Hamas, so the entire group has been declared a terror organisation.

Have an issue with that, take it up with Parliament. They made the decision, not I. But the law is the Law is the law.

So why haven't they been arrested? Supporting Hamas was already illegal long before Palestine Action was declared a terrorist organisation. After all, the law is the law is the law.

 

[Metal Biker]

So why haven't they been arrested? Supporting Hamas was already illegal long before Palestine Action was declared a terrorist organisation. After all, the law is the law is the law.

Doing a public action on an active RAF base was probaly the final straw. Before then they were probably toeing the line. You'd have to ask parliament for their definition as to why they declared it to be thus. Fact is, it is now, and any known association can potentially land you in trouble with the law.

You appear to be angry at the decision, rather than the practice, but as long as 'illegal acts become illegal as determined by Parliament' remains the absolute, illegal acts will always be deferred to as thus.

You're angry at the guy telling you that the 'sky is blue' instead of those who defined it as being. Parliament made the decision, not me. I don't understand why you're getting pissy at me because of it. I'm just making you aware that this is the current state of affairs, yet you appear to think i'm responsible or that i'm an advocate for it. Bizzare!

 

[LesBleuMiserable]

Any returning IDF genocidal actors back to UK arrested yet? Surely there is more than IS level of comparisons and then some more on those IDF war criminals.

 

[Metal Biker]

There appears to be none forthcoming. Just endless repetition.

Stop asking the same question over and over again, then.

You'll just get the same answer. Parliament has declared Palestine Action to be a terrorist organistion and association or support of it COULD see you facing judicial action. I personally have no opinion on the matter, be in it support or objection to it. But the law is, the Law is the law, and this currently applies.

 

[WRicko]

You don't understand why people committed an act which they knew was illegal yet did it anyway then people question why they were reprimanded by the law?

I can't help you there, pal.

I don’t understand why people don’t understand why they did what they did

 

[Metal Biker]

I don’t understand why people don’t understand why they did what they did

Anyone could use that excuse and take it to extremes according to what personally affects them and their ideals. These sorts of actions are intended to 'nip it in the bud' before something MORE extreme, i.e risk to life, happens.

7/7 is tomorrow. There's no better example of what happens when fuelled extreme opinions go unchecked or unregulated for too long. I believe in freedom of expression, but it is not currently an absolute right we are allowed in the UK at present. I'm just pointing that out, not saying if it's right or wrong what people may believe in.

 

[WRicko]

Anyone could use that excuse and take it to extremes accoridign to what personally affects them and their ideals. These sorts of actions are intended to 'nip it in the bud' before something MORE extreme, i.e risk to life, happens.

7/7 is tomorrow. There's no better example of what happens when fuelled extreme opinions go unchecked or unregulated for too long.

Why not prescribe green peace ? Or Black Lives Matter or just stop oil or a load of other groups they all break the law and they all damage property

And you didn’t answer my post

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

We’ve just got to hope that the government don’t rush through a bill to determine that <Bluemoon poster X> is actually a terrorist activist and that they and anyone that agrees with them should be arrested and potentially charged.

 

[Metal Biker]

Why not prescribe green peace ? Or Black Lives Matter or just stop oil or a load of other groups they all break the law and they all damage property

And you didn’t answer my post

Yeah I did, you just didn't like the answer :)

If your action in objecting to something breaks UK Laws you WILL face reprimand because we have no carte blanche freedom of expression laws in the UK, currently. There are caveats, which, once broken, limits your legal right to express yourself.

This is the democracy you and I abide by. You may not like it, but you abide by it.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Doing a public action on an active RAF base was probaly the final straw. Before then they were probably toeing the line. You'd have to ask parliament for their definition as to why they declared it to be thus. Fact is, it is now, and any known association can potentially land you in trouble with the law.

You appear to be angry at the decision, rather than the practice, but as long as 'illegal acts become illegal as determined by Parliament' remains the absolute, illegal acts will always be deferred to as thus.

You're angry at the guy telling you that the 'sky is blue' instead of those who defined it as being. Parliament made the decision, not me. I don't understand why you're getting pissy at me because of it. I'm just making you aware that this is the current state of affairs, yet you appear to think i'm responsible or that i'm an advocate for it. Bizzare!

What made you think I'm angry? I love it when people just attribute emotions to someone to try to discredit them. Why are you getting pissy with someone just asking what they did that constitutes terrorism? I have no opinion about Palestine Action. I'd not heard of them before a few weeks ago. For all I know, they've been secretly funding Hamas for years or been in regular contact with Hamas representatives and acting as their mouthpiece in the UK for years. I'm just saying that it's a bit strange for an organisation where no-one has been arrested for these things, which were already a crime, to suddenly be designated a terrorist organisation because of one bit of criminal damage. And again, I'm fully open to the possibility that loads of their top brass have been arrested multiple times for supporting Hamas and have loads of convictions for terror offences, but I've not seen any evidence that that's the case.

I mean if your only contribution to the thread is to just tell us that they're now a designated terrorist organisation, then thank you, but I think we could all work that out from the news.

 

[Metal Biker]

What made you think I'm angry? I love it when people just attribute emotions to someone to try to discredit them. Why are you getting pissy with someone just asking what they did that constitutes terrorism? I have no opinion about Palestine Action. I'd not heard of them before a few weeks ago. For all I know, they've been secretly funding Hamas for years or been in regular contact with Hamas representatives and acting as their mouthpiece in the UK for years. I'm just saying that it's a bit strange for an organisation where no-one has been arrested for these things, which were already a crime, to suddenly be designated a terrorist organisation because of one bit of criminal damage. And again, I'm fully open to the possibility that loads of their top brass have been arrested multiple times for supporting Hamas and have loads of convictions for terror offences, but I've not seen any evidence that that's the case.

I mean if your only contribution to the thread is to just tell us that they're now a designated terrorist organisation, then thank you, but I think we could all work that out from the news.

That pretty much IS the gist of my entire contribution to this discussion, which is why I'm surprised it has garnered so many negative replies with many thinking it's my own personal opinion. It's almost as if people aren't happy with the reality of the situation and think I'm solely responsible. Go figure.

I'm just saying, they've been declared a terrorist organisation and anyone supporting it now will likely face the long arm of the law as per the current law. *Intense harumphings ensues*

 

[Vic]

What made you think I'm angry? I love it when people just attribute emotions to someone to try to discredit them. Why are you getting pissy with someone just asking what they did that constitutes terrorism? I have no opinion about Palestine Action. I'd not heard of them before a few weeks ago. For all I know, they've been secretly funding Hamas for years or been in regular contact with Hamas representatives and acting as their mouthpiece in the UK for years. I'm just saying that it's a bit strange for an organisation where no-one has been arrested for these things, which were already a crime, to suddenly be designated a terrorist organisation because of one bit of criminal damage. And again, I'm fully open to the possibility that loads of their top brass have been arrested multiple times for supporting Hamas and have loads of convictions for terror offences, but I've not seen any evidence that that's the case.

I mean if your only contribution to the thread is to just tell us that they're now a designated terrorist organisation, then thank you, but I think we could all work that out from the news.

I'm afraid you've fallen for his persistent ignorance about support for Hamas being why PA has been proscribed. I think he eventually backtracked and admitted his ignorance by saying "You'd have to ask parliament for their definition as to why they declared it to be thus". "Thus" being the one thing he's got right: "Doing a public action on an active RAF base was probaly the final straw".

Previous actions were directly to stop weapons and equipment going to facilitate a genocide (allowing for the "greater good" defence that Starmer used in 2003). But it's harder to argue that the Brize Norton action was not trying to influence the government (one of the conditions for a terrorist offence). Previous actions have involved violence and maybe even "terrorised" people in the factories (so not just throwing red paint) but it's only legally a "terrorist" offence if it's trying to influence the government (in this case influencing the government to stop aiding and abetting truly terrorist attacks on civilians).

He's still avoided the "which is worse" question - killing thousands of children or protesting about it.

Rather than posting ignorantly on here (then wondering why that might anger people) he could have looked at what was said in Parliament, including the arguments against proscribing PA. Perhaps the best argument is that after 80 groups have been proscribed, with very little disagreement about it (like the two groups also proscribed this week), that consensus about what anyone would call terrorism has been wrecked.

 

[Vic]

Anti-Israel protests can take place at anytime without needing to even mention Palestine Action so I don't see the problem. The only reason for the existence of Palestine Action is to take action, actions that we know are illegal so I do not understand the defence because there is no defence.

So yes the government has acted to proscribe them quite simply because their actions fall under the terror legislation. The alternative is the Official Secrets Act (given they entered an RAF station and damaged an MOD asset) but terror legislation carries much greater powers.

The Terrorism Act 2000 defines terrorism, both in and outside of the UK, as the use or threat of one or more of the actions listed below, and where they are designed to influence the government, or an international governmental organisation or to intimidate the public. The use or threat must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause.

The specific actions included are:

• serious violence against a person;
• serious damage to property;
• endangering a person's life (other than that of the person committing the action);
• creating a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public; and
• action designed to seriously interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.

Which means the Israeli war crimes are terrorist offences. But the government seems reluctant to arrest Netanyahu, who has ordered those offences.

 

[Damocles]

Any returning IDF genocidal actors back to UK arrested yet? Surely there is more than IS level of comparisons and then some more on those IDF war criminals.

Sure, do you have any judicial level evidence of war crimes committed by specific soldiers that are inside the UK so we can get the ball rolling?

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

The vandalism resulted in jets being grounded for engine changes as a minimum.. the painted / damaged engines going back to RR for remanufacture (at huge fucking expense to you and me by the way)

Any deliberate damage to military assets should be classed as serious IMHO.. Treason in fact

I think if you break into any military base and start to sabotage expensive military equipment you run the risk of not only being detained and having the book thrown at you, but also you run the risk of being shot. Presumably there are armed personnel at most if not all of these bases. Interesting to see the outcome if that had occurred.