What has the UK become under the far right influence?

[moomba]

This place is full of self professed progressives who delight in spitting on the untermenschen in post after post.

There seems to be a weird obsession with the left.

I wouldn't know what end of the political spectrum 99% of the posters are. Suspect most are somewhere in the middle.

You certainly dont have to be left wing to find some of the activity going on in politics today very worrying.

 

[Marklr]

You have a point.

You're right, they don't

But the greatest betrayal is from the left, you know the folk who are supposed to give a shit.

Not anymore.

The middle class "radical" left have rejected everything their ma and papa believed, with the sole exception of their hatred for the great unwashed....



This is a caricature from both sides of the political divide, the rosy portrayal of the Epping protesters is par for the course, I would expect nothing less from the right, lying is their bread and butter, but who can argue that the left does not fear the Gammonzilla?

This place is full of self professed progressives who delight in spitting on the untermenschen in post after post.

It doesn't make people left wing because they believe the facts before social media rumours. This whole "immigration crisis" bollocks that has risen recently is simply down to right wing shit stirring mis-info. And the Islamophobia we witness is also based on mis-info beginning with 9/11. Does that make me 'left wing' for pointing that out?

 

[Don Karleone]

Is it? The newspapers only reported 3 tweets, and only that one could have realistically been considered inciting violence (the others potentially could have been construed as inciting hatred though). Do you know what else he did?

Apologies, I misread.

He was arrested at Heathrow for those 3 tweets.

This trial is for harassment and criminal damage.

 

[The perfect fumble]

In my family, I have Brexit voters and far-right protesters, Mail readers and GB News viewers. I am surrounded by their political discourse. I listen to it, so I am fully aware of their opinions.
They believe that Israel is defending itself. They believe that kids are in danger from immigrants. They believe that those migrating from the UK take their income and pensions with them and contribute to their chosen country while those arriving just want to leech from the state. They believe that 'illegals' are given ipads and Sky TV. They believe that they cannot get a doctor's appointment because of immigrants. They think the kids can't get a house because of immigrants. They believe there's too much traffic because of immigrants. They believe we need to 'look after our own'. They believe that veterans are on the streets because of immigrants. They believe that billionaires will flee the country if they are asked to pay more tax. They voted Conservative, then UKIP and will now vote Reform.

I don't spit on my family, but I despair that they have chosen the diet of news they have from TV stations owned by Dubai investment groups and newspapers owned by non-doms operating through a complex array of trusts. Their political views are like watching or reading from an autocue for the presenters of those channels. That they believe in these organisations that preach about lost public services while making little fiscal contribution to the nation is a head-shaker to me.

We are now so polarised that it isn't spitting on an underclass that is the issue, but finding some opinions so unpalatable that you cannot even begin to understand someone feeling that way if they actually have the intellectual capability to read and view and critically analyse the evidence before them.

There seems to be a weird obsession with the left.

I wouldn't know what end of the political spectrum 99% of the posters are. Suspect most are somewhere in the middle.

You certainly dont have to be left wing to find some of the activity going on in politics today very worrying.

It doesn't make people left wing because they believe the facts before social media rumours. This whole "immigration crisis" bollocks that has risen recently is simply down to right wing shit stirring mis-info. And the Islamophobia we witness is also based on mis-info beginning with 9/11. Does that make me 'left wing' for pointing that out?

No, but it does make you all poor readers of human nature.

We are not automatons, we're not all Mr Spock, logical argument can only get you so far, there's a reason that "hearts and minds" is a phrase and why heart is given first billing over mind. You can try to convince a bloke by bombarding him with facts till you're blue in the face, but to quote another phrase if "his heart's not in it", and here's another phrase for you "it's like talking to a brick wall".

Both the left and right have their own ideologies, if you ignore the extremes where they both start to converge, one of the major differences is the right is individualistic and the left is collectivist. One of the downsides of collectivism is it thinks it's prescriptive but is all too often proscriptive, so some folk instinctively reject it and when enough folk start to instinctively reject what you say on something, then all too often they start to instinctively reject what you say on everything, when that happens whether you're being logical or not is immaterial, they're just not listening.

 

[Elbow beards]

I wish the buffoons that put these union flags up at least put them up the right way round. Must be about 90 percent upside down round here.

 

[Marklr]

No, but it does make you all poor readers of human nature.

We are not automatons, we're not all Mr Spock, logical argument can only get you so far, there's a reason that "hearts and minds" is a phrase and why heart is given first billing over mind. You can try to convince a bloke by bombarding him with facts till you're blue in the face, but to quote another phrase if "his heart's not in in it", and here's another phrase for you "it's like talking to a brick wall".

Both the left and right have their own ideologies, if you ignore the extremes where they both start to converge, one of the major differences is the right is individualistic and the left is collectivist. One of the downsides of collectivism is it thinks it's prescriptive but is all too often proscriptive, so some folk instinctively reject it and when enough folk start to instinctively reject what you say on something, then all too often they start to instinctively reject what you say on everything, when that happens whether you're being logical or not is immaterial, they're just not listening.

One when side is based on mis-info and the other side is not..... That's my gripe with this whole issue. I can't get my head around that people will believe so much nonsense. It's scary. I'm not the sharpest tool in the lunchbox, but I still know how to use critical thinking and fact checking. If i could see how immigration was having such a negative effect, then I would be against it.

 

[Jimmieblue]

This thread could do with reading ‘Under the present Government’

 

[moomba]

No, but it does make you all poor readers of human nature.

Strange

 

[The perfect fumble]

One when side is based on mis-info and the other side is not..... That's my gripe with this whole issue. I can't get my head around that people will believe so much nonsense. It's scary. I'm not the sharpest tool in the lunchbox, but I still know how to use critical thinking and fact checking. If i could see how immigration was having such a negative effect, then I would be against it.

Well there's no denying that one side is telling whoppers and the other side, your side, is not, but your side is not being entirely honest either, your sides's lies are the lies of omission.

You state....

If i could see how immigration was having such a negative effect, then I would be against it.

But it isn't about that, that's why you can't convince these people with facts. What has happened is the issue of immigration has undergone a seismic shift, a groundbreaking lurch that the far right have been longing for and banging on about for decades with no success, until now.

It's irrational I know, but for a sizeable chunk of the population the issue has now become existential.

Of course it makes no sense, it's counter factual, that's why it's immune to logic and will consequently not be countered by any of the cautious and measured things the government is trying to do.

It's not racism as you and I know it, but it is the end of multiculturalism, a terrible "ism" that has played no small part in leading us here.

i take no pleasure in stating this, but for the first time in my lifetime a lot of my fellow Brits want "them" gone and the term "them" seems to get more elastic everyday.

 

[Marklr]

Well there's no denying that one side is telling whoppers and the other side, your side, is not, but your side is not being entirely honest either, your sides's lies are the lies of omission.

You state....

If i could see how immigration was having such a negative effect, then I would be against it.

But it isn't about that, that's why you can't convince these people with facts. What has happened is the issue of immigration has undergone a seismic shift, a groundbreaking lurch that the far right have been longing for and banging on about for decades with no success, until now.

It's irrational I know, but for a sizeable chunk of the population the issue has now become existential.

Of course it makes no sense, it's counter factual, that's why it's immune to logic and will consequently not be countered by any of the cautious and measured things the government is trying to do.

It's not racism as you and I know it, but it is the end of multiculturalism, a terrible "ism" that has played no small part in leading us here.

i take no pleasure in stating this, but for the first time in my lifetime a lot of my fellow Brits want "them" gone and the term "them" seems to get more elastic everyday.

You want the right wing liars and mis-info spreaders gone?

 

[The perfect fumble]

You want the right wing liars and mis-info spreaders gone?

If I could snap my fingers and they were gone, preferably to their spiritual home in Trump's America, I wouldn't hesitate.

 

[Rammy Blue]

 

[blueinsa]

**** also needs to be recalled as an MP and be nowhere near Westminster for fiddling his stamp duty.

 

[oldius]

No, but it does make you all poor readers of human nature.

We are not automatons, we're not all Mr Spock, logical argument can only get you so far, there's a reason that "hearts and minds" is a phrase and why heart is given first billing over mind. You can try to convince a bloke by bombarding him with facts till you're blue in the face, but to quote another phrase if "his heart's not in it", and here's another phrase for you "it's like talking to a brick wall".

Both the left and right have their own ideologies, if you ignore the extremes where they both start to converge, one of the major differences is the right is individualistic and the left is collectivist. One of the downsides of collectivism is it thinks it's prescriptive but is all too often proscriptive, so some folk instinctively reject it and when enough folk start to instinctively reject what you say on something, then all too often they start to instinctively reject what you say on everything, when that happens whether you're being logical or not is immaterial, they're just not listening.

I think this is a good point, though an abject shame.
I reject nothing you say here - I listen to my family and they will reject even looking at truth as 'lefty rubbish', no matter how I implore them.
It is hard to countenance that it is the heart leading someone to watch children being starved to death and actually blame them for their own starvation.

 

[urban genie]

There seems to be a weird obsession with the left.

I wouldn't know what end of the political spectrum 99% of the posters are. Suspect most are somewhere in the middle.

You certainly dont have to be left wing to find some of the activity going on in politics today very worrying.

most commenting here are not left wing in the sense of hard core socialists or communist leaning, most will be social democratic and more middle of the political spectrum and centre ground.

This labeling of anything opposing right wing intolerance as liberal-left has been imported from america the last decade and we are seeing now with our media and farages playbook an atempt to re-label our society as either patriotic citizens or liberal-left haters of our country.

The idea working class people are fully represented by these in canary wharf or epping is ridiculous.

really is depressing our political landscape atm

 

[Blue and true]

most commenting here are not left wing in the sense of hard core socialists or communist leaning, most will be social democratic and more middle of the political spectrum and centre ground.

This labeling of anything opposing right wing intolerance as liberal-left has sbeen impprted from america the last decade and we are seeing now withp ur media amd farages playbook an atempt to re-label our society as either patriotic citizens or liberal-left haters of our country.

The idea working class people are fully represented by these in canary wharf or epping is ridiculous.

really is depressing our political landscape atm

There won't be a single person on this forum that is a hardcore socialist, I doubt very many will be socialists at all. If people actually read about the tenets of pure socialism, as espoused by the likes on Lenin and Marx, they'd see it's incompatible with any 21st Century socio-economic system. That's real socialism; and I don't know a single person who would advocate that. Now, it's just another word that's lost all meaning. Like woke, like patriot, it's just empty.

Oppose blowing up women and kids? Oh you're just a woke. Oppose gross imbalance of taxation? Oh you're a dirty socialist.

Fucking embarrassing.

 

[urban genie]

There won't be a single person on this forum that is a hardcore socialist, I doubt very many will be socialists at all. If people actually read about the tenets of pure socialism, as espoused by the likes on Lenin and Marx, they'd see it's incompatible with any 21st Century socio-economic system. That's real socialism; and I don't know a single person who would advocate that. Now, it's just another word that's lost all meaning. Like woke, like patriot, it's just empty.

Oppose blowing up women and kids? Oh you're just a woke. Oppose gross imbalance of taxation? Oh you're a dirty socialist.

Fucking embarrassing.

oh I don't know some embers of socialist thinking still exists in people like myself

I belive in collective ownership, community and society co-operatives, ecconomic equality and partial abolishment of currency, social welfare, and would not be opposed to armed revolution to achieve those aims(though this will never happen in this country).

I also believe that intolerance of and agitation against it is a necessity option to defeat far right thuggery.

Unfortunately socialist are few and far between and where the likes of Britains first would have been chased out of town 40-50 years ago and got a kick up thee arse on the way, most modern lefties would rather wave a a placard at them. and don't get me started don the SWP cunts

 

[blueinsa]

oh I don't know some embers of socialist thinking still exists in people like myself

I belive in collective ownership, community and society co-operatives, ecconomic equality and partial abolishment of currency, social welfare, and would not be opposed to armed revolution to achieve those aims(though this will never happen in this country).

I also believe that intolerance of and agitation against it is a necessity option to defeat far right thuggery.

Unfortunately socialist are few and far between and where the likes of Britains first would have been chased out of town 40-50 years ago and got a kick up thee arse on the way, most modern lefties would rather wave a a placard at them. and don't get me started don the SWP cunts

Morning Che

 

[The perfect fumble]

I think this is a good point, though an abject shame.
I reject nothing you say here - I listen to my family and they will reject even looking at truth as 'lefty rubbish', no matter how I implore them.
It is hard to countenance that it is the heart leading someone to watch children being starved to death and actually blame them for their own starvation.

You sound very much like me in my youth, though me mum and dad were more receptive, there's a phrase for folk like us "bleeding heart liberals". It's a horrible phrase, but it's still in use coz there's a grain of truth to it. Just as we're not automatons most of us are not woke....

To be "woke" someone is informed, educated and conscious of social injustice and racial inequality.

There's a limit to empathy, for most folk it's nearest and dearest, then the people you know and work with, the odd terrible tragedy, beyond that it's mostly....

 

[moomba]

There's a limit to empathy, for most folk it's nearest and dearest, then the people you know and work with, the odd terrible tragedy, beyond that it's mostly....

Don't believe that's the case. Hope not anyway.