What has the UK become under the far right influence?

[BlueHammer85]

You're all arguing fundamental politics, who is right who is wrong. Just doesn't matter. The country is going to vote in Reform. The current and previous govns have just not listened. That's the problem.

In future they will hopefully, if Farage doesn't fuck it all up.

Starmer is pretty shrewed, I can imagine Labour teaming up with Libs or Greens nearer the time of the next vote.

 

[wattle]

After my friends and family, I am as concerned about global issues as I am about fellow Brits. I don't especially consider myself British, however, so perhaps that is a factor. I have no particular loyalty to my nation of birth, nor any patriotic feelings. My father is very patriotic, a Brexiteer, and told me throughout my childhood of Britain being world leaders. He spoke of British quality, and of English being the international language, discouraging me from learning others, though I was useless at languages anyway. I am now an Irish citizen.

I think you speak well of the reality for many. I don't like it, but I understand your world-view, and believe it to be largely accurate, for a lot of people. I find it somewhat depressing though, and believe that care for fellow humans would lead to better choices. I think that feelings of patriotism are dissipating fast, and there is where the tension is. Some people are fiercely patriotic, or just speak loudly about it, while others, especially swathes of young people, have no loyalty to their nation of birth whatsoever. This will be a political dilemma because young people will increasingly question the choices made by politicians, and will turn their back on political parties who support despotic regimes outed on social media. When I was young (I'm 56) I was fed tales of the evils that lurked behind the iron curtain where all was grey and could not be trusted; that Churchill was the greatest British hero; and that the British empire was filled with heroism and the spirit of exploration, and corruption was far removed from Britain but rife elsewhere in the world. This was ALL we were taught, and times are changing, rapidly. Why? Because much of that is utter bullshit, or, at best, filled with misinformation by omission.

If I were to choose citizenship of Britain, what would matter to me more than it does right now?
When I hear politicians speak of their patriotism, then watch them close mines, the textile industry, steel works, the fishing industry, and sell off social housing, their words ring hollow to me. I watch our rivers pumped full of sewage while shareholders count their dividends and patriots do nothing. I listen to Farage tell the people of Clacton that he has bought a house there, then fall apart when he's questioned about his taxes. I watch Sunak justify his 21% tax rate and his non-dom billionaire wife. I watch Starmer continue to supply weaponry to Israel while they slaughter children, doctors and journalists and I wonder how that ticks the box marked Great Britain. I watch the repeated affairs of the Royal Family, their hush money payments, their friendships with paedophiles, and I watch the press gloss over it like it doesn't matter. I suppose because I care about these issues, I must care about Britain, but I am absolutely being driven from it, both mentally, and probably physically, and I am far from alone.

Brilliantly written. I couldn’t agree more. I’m embarrassed to be English/British. Shambles of a country.

 

[bluejon]

I thought I'd spelled it out but I've gone back and spelled it out again in simplistic terms. Yes, it is possible to be working class and hate the things I referenced, I'm working class and hate many of them myself.

The point I was making is the characteristics I listed are nought but caricatures that Vic, and clearly you, have constructed to justify your already settled conclusion. I repeat, so there's no misunderstanding, these caricatures exist to fit the conclusion you've already come to.

Once you've created your caricature, your enemy, you must deliberately rubbish them. Coz if your enemy is a worthless piece of shit then who gives a shit what they think, that way you skip the tricky bit where you try to understand why they're doing what they're doing.,

Don't kid yourself, that's clearly how you and Vic see many of your fellow Brits, they're shits, they're the enemy.

What i see is you on your hill on your own, constantly proving yourself right, you and only you. You have zero idea as to my specific viewpoints, mainly as i rarely post on here, but you are very quick to jump to caricature yourself, and very wrong ones at that.

 

[oldius]

You're all arguing fundamental politics, who is right who is wrong. Just doesn't matter. The country is going to vote in Reform. The current and previous govns have just not listened. That's the problem.

In future they will hopefully, if Farage doesn't fuck it all up.

I can understand a protest vote, but other than immigration, I have not heard a Reform MP speak of any issues. I have watched Tice and Farage get very tetchy about their tax affairs, and advocate private insurance instead of the NHS. 4 years is a long, long time.

 

[Vic]

I thought I'd spelled it out but I've gone back and spelled it out again in simplistic terms. Yes, it is possible to be working class and hate the things I referenced, I'm working class and hate many of them myself.

The point I was making is the characteristics I listed are nought but caricatures that Vic, and clearly you, have constructed to justify your already settled conclusion. I repeat, so there's no misunderstanding, these caricatures exist to fit the conclusion you've already come to.

In order to do this you must deliberately disparage your enemy. Coz if your enemy is a worthless piece of shit then who gives a shit what they think, and that's clearly how you and Vic see many of your fellow Brits, they're shits, they're the enemy.

Oddball stuff again.

I'll spell it out.

When you happily inform fellow-Britons that there’s no such thing as a prevailing English culture, because for you it's just beer bellied white racists, or Hooray Henry's, the sons and daughters of the evil British Empire, belting out Rule Britannia at the Proms, or St George was Turkish and the Royal Family is shit and the Union flag is divisive coz diversity is our strength or whatever other lies you tell yourself to fuel your divisive fantasy, what you actually mean is that the real culture, not your caricature, you know the one that actually exists – the culture of working class England, the culture of Middle England – doesn’t contain anything you value.

And that's why they're flying their flags, coz it's a big fuck you.

And that's not a caricature? (I don't mind singing Rule Britannia. After all, it was written to celebrate our German monarchy.)

 

[The perfect fumble]

What i see is you on your hill on your own, constantly proving yourself right, you and only you. You have zero idea as to my specific viewpoints, mainly as i rarely post on here, but you are very quick to jump to caricature yourself, and very wrong ones at that.

That's as may be, but when someone jumps straight to a definitive statement in the first sentence as you did, with no preamble, I struggle to imagine what other conclusion could be made.

 

[bluethrunthru]

wankers - these are the people who rioted after the stabbings in Southport - an event where kids were having a dance class. Two tier child frightening

 

[bluejon]

That's as may be, but when someone jumps straight to a definitive statement in the first sentence as you did, with no preamble, I struggle to imagine what other conclusion could be made.

So you're saying the flags aren't anti-immigrant?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Oddball stuff again.

And that's not a caricature? (I don't mind singing Rule Britannia. After all, it was written to celebrate our German monarchy.)

You need to give it a rest, playing to the gallery can't disguise how vacuous your replies have become.

 

[City Hobgoblin]

So anyone remotely critical of our nation's history, or merely aware (woke) of it, turns out to be a hater of said nation.

That's an utter oddball conclusion - like thinking you can't see Churchill as a hero for his drunken bravado in WW2 and also a villain for his mistakes (bombing Arabs, sending a gun boat up the Mersey to threaten strikers).

It is getting harder to enjoy the jingoistic origins of Last Night of the Proms but it's still a national (at least English) annual highlight - hopefully with lots of Palestinian and Ukrainian flags.

Bottom line. If I hadn't by accident of birth been British and were suddenly now given a choice of citizenship, would I choose a British passport? I like the nice EU burgundy passport - black is so dull - and it offers freedom of movement in the continent I would want to live in. So maybe Ireland (common travel area so no problem watching City), or a Scandinavian country, but reliable socialised medical care a must. And ultimately somewhere where I don't have to ask what the country had become under far right influence.

They don't do 'nuanced'. It's all a binary vote. Choose your side and shout very loudly.

 

[The perfect fumble]

So you're saying the flags aren't anti-immigrant?

They are anti Immigrant.

 

[bluejon]

They are anti Immigrant.

So do you agree they are being put up to make immigrants feel unwelcome, which was my first sentence?

 

[The perfect fumble]

So do you agree they are being put up to make immigrants feel unwelcome, which was my first sentence?

No, they are anti what they perceive immigration has become, a threat not just for resources, houses and whatnot, but an existential threat to the country they think they live in and consequently their own identity. There are racists that are exploiting this and fanning those fears, let's state that from the get go, but they've never had this level of traction before and that traction comes from a mass rejection of multiculturalism.

What these flags represent is a political statement that states in no uncertain terms that there's an indigenous population in this country, that there is an over arching culture and those that choose to live here must recognise that fact. That citizenship brings with it benefits yes, but it also brings obligations and those obligations should include a commitment to integrate into the prevailing culture and to learn English. Cultural identities are sacrosanct but only insofar as they comply with the laws of the land.

Cultural festivals, religious worship, have at it, great, we're a free country, but that country is Britain and it's more than just a land mass. No more "diversity is our strength", it's not, it's a lie and people know it. More unity is our strength and that must come with a new social contract between the people and the state based on honesty and the pursuit of common purpose. Less all cultures are equal, they're not and certainly not in a country with an over arching culture like ours, less DEI and more "When in Rome".

If "progressive" folk in here don't like it, fine, do nothing and see how that works out, as I stated earlier if reasonable people's reasonable demands are not addressed reasonably they end up being addressed unreasonably.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I can understand a protest vote, but other than immigration, I have not heard a Reform MP speak of any issues. I have watched Tice and Farage get very tetchy about their tax affairs, and advocate private insurance instead of the NHS. 4 years is a long, long time.

I very much doubt they'll have anywhere near enough candidates to field for a GE.
Although, be under no illusion. Labour and the Tories are dead in the water. The next GE is likely to be a five way split imo. With Reform needing much more than a Tory link up in a hung parliament.
Imo opinion we're likely to end up with no overall coalition with an immediate GE to follow.
Maybe only then will the publics minds refocus on the perils ahead.
Personally I see us ending up mirroring an Italian fuck up for quite some time.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

I very much doubt they'll have anywhere near enough candidates to field for a GE.
Although, be under no illusion. Labour and the Tories are dead in the water. The next GE is likely to be a five way split imo. With Reform needing much more than a Tory link up in a hung parliament.
Imo opinion we're likely to end up with no overall coalition with an immediate GE to follow.
Maybe only then will the publics minds refocus on the perils ahead.
Personally I see us ending up mirroring an Italian fuck up for quite some time.

I think they'll find the number of candidates to stand.

The thing they will face is that every single one who is considered a threat will be investigated by various media to identify wrong 'uns.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I think they'll find the number of candidates to stand.

The thing they will face is that every single one who is considered a threat will be investigated by various media to identify wrong 'uns.

It'll be a proper rogues gallery, that's for sure.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Starmer is pretty shrewed, I can imagine Labour teaming up with Libs or Greens nearer the time of the next vote.

No idea how you’ve come to that conclusion

 

[blueinsa]

Starmer is pretty shrewed, I can imagine Labour teaming up with Libs or Greens nearer the time of the next vote.

Starmer is falling apart faster than a paper bag in the rain.

 

[meltonblue]

No, they are anti what they perceive immigration has become, a threat not just for resources, houses and whatnot, but an existential threat to the country they think they live in and consequently their own identity. There are racists that are exploiting this and fanning those fears, let's state that from the get go, but they've never had this level of traction before and that traction comes from a mass rejection of multiculturalism.

What these flags represent is a political statement that states in no uncertain terms that there's an indigenous population in this country, that there is an over arching culture and those that choose to live here must recognise that fact. That citizenship brings with it benefits yes, but it also brings obligations and those obligations should include a commitment to integrate into the prevailing culture and to learn English. Cultural identities are sacrosanct but only insofar as they comply with the laws of the land.

Cultural festivals, religious worship, have at it, great, we're a free country, but that country is Britain and it's more than just a land mass. Less diversity is our strength, it's not, it's a lie and too few folk believe it. More unity is our strength and that must come with a new social contract between the people and the state based on honesty and the pursuit of common purpose. Less all cultures are equal, they're not and certainly not in a country with an over arching culture like ours, less DEI and more "When in Rome".

If "progressive" folk in here don't like it, fine, do nothing and see how that works out, as I stated earlier if reasonable people's reasonable demands are not addressed reasonably they end up being addressed unreasonably.

That’s the predominant reason behind the rise of reform (although I would still argue you are using a right wing view of multiculturalism). I’d argue that isn’t true for a lot with the flags though. That is a very small subset of those that are concerned about cultural nationalism and several organisers of that are absolutely the exploitative racists that you talk of that are using flags as a threat.

One of the main organisers in Nottingham near me was Gumarit Singh for example.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

Those last few disgusting clips on here have shown who the real instigators of all these ‘protests’ are. Those concerned citizens have had their say and have gone back to their own business. What we are now left with is a nasty, distasteful, angry mob who have no concern for what they portray.