Charlie Kirk shot dead at Utah university

[I'm With Stupid]

I tend to agree with this guy on the matter.



Time will tell either way.

A lot of Americans are very well trained though. There are something in the region of 17-20 million Americans either currently or formerly in the military. Doesn't narrow things down a lot. Also the "it doesn't benefit us in any way" argument also doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to benefit 'us,' it just takes a single person on that side to believe it does.

 

[robbieh]

Kirk's attitude towards black men and women based on his view they were getting preferential treatment was both stupid and showed he didn't realise that it was he a white kid who was the beneficiary of years of white male superiority. Imagine if his grandfather had had to compete against blacks and hispanics on a fair playing field, and his dad. Charlie may well have found life a lot tougher.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

People have also pointed out that he was a nasty piece of work or at least pretending to be to make himself rich.

Same thing. Not trying to nit pick or anything but whether or not he believed his own bullshit is immaterial. The guy was a grade A piece of shit.

 

[domalino]

I tend to agree with this guy on the matter.



Time will tell either way.

But there were dozens of witnesses? He was literally caught on camera.

And it wasn’t 200 yards but 140.

And “mid-sentence” doesn’t mean anything, Kirk was there to talk, he was talking 90% of the time he was in the tent, and listening 10% of the time.

Not a lot of convincing evidence in that TikTok to be honest.

 

[bluethrunthru]

good question

 

[SWP's back]

All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics.

You should be able to quote a couple in that case, I just have missed them.

 

[SWP's back]

A lot of Americans are very well trained though. There are something in the region of 17-20 million Americans either currently or formerly in the military. Doesn't narrow things down a lot. Also the "it doesn't benefit us in any way" argument also doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to benefit 'us,' it just takes a single person on that side to believe it does.

Therefore “professional”.

 

[SWP's back]

And it wasn’t 200 yards but 140.

I’ve seen 200-250 listed a bunch of times with maps as reference, you’re the first to say 140.

 

[The blue phantom]

To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.

Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)

Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:

* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3

Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:

* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7

Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:

* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10

Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:

* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16

Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:

* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18

Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:

* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20

Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:

* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24

January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:

* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27

Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:

* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30

Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:

* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34

International Recognition as Extremist:

* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37

General Violence Normalization:

* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40

Sources:

\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)

\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)

\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)

\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)

\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)

\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)

\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)

\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)

\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)

\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)

\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)

\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)

\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)

\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)

\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)

\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)

\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)

\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)

Yep as others have said on here sounds like a decent bloke.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Therefore “professional”.

Well yeah in that sense. But if someone says to me it was a professional assassination, I'm thinking more that someone is being paid to do it. But agreed that it seems to be a skilled shooter.

 

[feedmpenzaandhewillscore]

The flip side of freedom is it comes with responsibility, two freedoms in the states collided. One freedom was expressing a point of view that could antagonise a group of people, the other was the right to bare arms, you don’t use them to go harm or kill people.

As human being we have freedom but you use common sense. If I go swimming with crocodiles and keep pulling its tail and antagonising it there’s every chance it will kill me. If I lived in America and had a platform to reach thousands or even millions of people to transmit an ideology that is going to get a negative reaction from a section of the population, I would expect some blow back from it and know that some of these people would be carrying guns and have variables of how mentally stable they are to use them in situations.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

The flip side of freedom is it comes with responsibility, two freedoms in the states collided. One freedom was expressing a point of view that could antagonise a group of people, the other was the right to bare arms, you don’t use them to go harm or kill people.

As human being we have freedom but you use common sense. If I go swimming with crocodiles and keep pulling its tail and antagonising it there’s every chance it will kill me. If I lived in America and had a platform to reach thousands or even millions of people to transmit an ideology that is going to get a negative reaction from a section of the population, I would expect some blow back from it and know that some of these people would be carrying guns and have variables of how mentally stable they are to use them in situations.

Unfortunately these days, that's not how you can build a platform and get heard. It could be the case (I don't think it is) that Charlie Kirk is actually far more reasonable than the shit he spouts, but he realised that he could get far more publicity spouting offensive shit instead and therefore make more money. I certainly think this is the case with someone like Katie Hopkins who seems completely disingenuous with everything she says.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Jheeze. Kirk aside, the focus on his educational achievements comes across as some sort of superiority complex.

What yardstick do you use to gauge someone’s propensity for intelligent thought? When looking for insight on the cosmos, I look to Cox, De Grasse Tyson, Sagan, because they’ve demonstrated mastery of the topic through their intellectual pursuits and educational achievements. You?

Intelligence and the ability to demonstrate critical thinking, speed of thought and other cognitive functions are not associated with your education.

They are a result, a summation, and a fruition of time taken both reading and contemplating an issue, which he had clearly not done at 18 when he started his crusade, or since.

Disagree with people's opinions all you want but to connect someone's education and them being a fool is bad taste in my opinion.

Bad taste, though it might be to you, it informs us of the intellectual rigor with which they pursued the subject matter, does it not?

And, frankly, not true for many who've gone onto achieve amazing things without collecting so much as a GCSE.

He clearly doesn’t possess any GCSEs, but you miss the point. He tries to come off as some pseudo-intellectual right winger, when he is actually an uneducated monger of tripe. He packages it in quick quips and obfuscation that similar dullards process as revelatory, because it was said so quickly and with such certitude.

His white, middle class upbringing might have exposed him to far more intelligent postulations on the subjects upon which he espoused, had he pursued some level of formal education on the subject and history of the issues, but he was clearly a dullard in school, too, as evidenced by his educational record.

Education level, especially coming from the village in which I live (which is where he is from) is a significant factor, especially silly for those who speak out so young, as it speaks to his level of critical thought and ability to synthesize information, given the wide-ranging educational opportunities available to almost anyone in our state.

This speaks to someone to whom others should probably not flock for any intellectual treatise on any sociological or political matter, given their leanings were already cemented by age 18, by which time he had already presented as a dullard. Nothing he did since then points to any deeper intellect, except his ability to monetize his fear mongering in the current malaise.

 

[johnny crossan]

Have you watched any of Kirk's online content?

This stuff is all over them.

Yes it is, the particular collation of incendiary quotes I asked for provenance of seemed scarcely credible from a figure allegedly so influential with millions of young Americans that he actually got Trump re-elected. He certainly came out with some stomach churning stuff. Interesting he was currently pushing for the Epstein files to be published.

Just watched a BBC video of extracts from his debates and it's linked to this article - I'll post if it becomes available.

Charlie Kirk: Young fans and critics debate his political legacy

Kirk attracted fervent crowds, bringing young people into conservative politics, while at the same time shocking some with provocative opinions.

www.bbc.co.uk

What to know about Charlie Kirk, Trump ally and conservative activist

The influential Trump ally who at age 18 set up Turning Point USA died in a shooting while speaking at a Utah campus event.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Daily Mail headlining that the assassin, although unknown, is a ‘Trans ideology assassin’, whatever that means.

This is due to ‘trans ideology messages on several rounds of ammunition found at the site’, they continue.

So this is the justification for the headline.

They then go on to report that a senior official then reported that initial reports about the ammunition ‘might turn out to have been misread or misinterpreted’.

The Mail, never knowingly putting water on a fire if there is a can of petrol anywhere near…

 

[MarcIsTired1986]

Yet here you are commenting.

I’ve airbrushed fuck all mate - in fact, it wasn’t until today that I came across your username

That's cool.

It wasn't until yesterday that I came across Charlottesville 2017.

 

[bluethrunthru]

I’ve seen 200-250 listed a bunch of times with maps as reference, you’re the first to say 140.

if you go on the BBC News web page there is a short explainer vid and their calculation from shooter to victim is detailed at 140m

 

[denislawsbackheel]

I have not seen anything to substantiate any of this. His personal beliefs are not harming anyone. I have never seen him disrespectful in his countless videos. I have seen nothing but a lot of respect in his debates towards anyone, including people he completely dosagreed with.

I have seen people here claiming he doesn't believe in empathy, when he seems to have plenty of that, especially for American people. They use some cherrypicked quote when he explains why he doesn't believe in empathy under particular circumstances. He picks and chooses when to emphasise though, like most on here. If he is so bad, so are people on here.

What the Racist right wing nut job said with links.

Charlie Kirk in his own words: ‘prowling Blacks’ and ‘the great replacement strategy’

The far-right commentator didn’t pull his punches when discussing his bigoted views on current events

www.theguardian.com

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

To your first point; it can do, or maybe not.

I would have thought someone who had got a top conservative position would be deemed a success by many. If you don't see it that way way then fair enough.

In my opinion the majority of politicians and parties have been an abject failure for the past decade and longer.

Probably because they look down on the so-called uneducated masses like a lot of people in this thread.

It could also be argued a lot of those people have benefitted from nepotism over capability.

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

What yardstick do you use to gauge someone’s propensity for intelligent thought? When looking for insight on the cosmos, I look to Cox, De Grasse Tyson, Sagan, because they’ve demonstrated mastery of the topic through their intellectual pursuits and educational achievements. You?


They are a result, a summation, and a fruition of time taken both reading and contemplating an issue, which he had clearly not done at 18 when he started his crusade, or since.


Bad taste, though it might be to you, it informs us of the intellectual rigor with which they pursued the subject matter, does it not?


He clearly doesn’t possess any GCSEs, but you miss the point. He tries to come off as some pseudo-intellectual right winger, when he is actually an uneducated monger of tripe. He packages it in quick quips and obfuscation that similar dullards process as revelatory, because it was said so quickly and with such certitude.

His white, middle class upbringing might have exposed him to far more intelligent postulations on the subjects upon which he espoused, had he pursued some level of formal education on the subject and history of the issues, but he was clearly a dullard in school, too, as evidenced by his educational record.

Education level, especially coming from the village in which I live (which is where he is from) is a significant factor, especially silly for those who speak out so young, as it speaks to his level of critical thought and ability to synthesize information, given the wide-ranging educational opportunities available to almost anyone in our state.

This speaks to someone to whom others should probably not flock for any intellectual treatise on any sociological or political matter, given their leanings were already cemented by age 18, by which time he had already presented as a dullard. Nothing he did since then points to any deeper intellect, except his ability to monetize his fear mongering in the current malaise.

Yawn. I think the effort that you've put into demonstrating that you're far more intellectual than anyone else was predictable.

The basic point wasn't specifically about him at all. It was your generalisation that uneducated = being a fool. I disagree.