Charlie Kirk shot dead at Utah university

[BlueHammer85]

Yep. Morals and values that only apply to the people you like are not morals and values. The fact is that being fair, honest and decent should not be dependent on the politics of the victim. I'm pretty much convinced that far right and far left zealots are all mentally ill, it's the only explanation.

do we know this shooter was far left ?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

At least Farage can see the bigger picture…
“The left tried to silence my friend, Charlie Kirk with wild slanders. Did they create an atmosphere where someone thought it legitimate to stop him talking for good?”

The champion of ‘free speech’ strikes again. Seems it’s not so much what you say, as who says it, as it always has been with free speech proponents.

At least it couldn’t happen here, in North Korea…

Ah, a classic Faragian "I'm not saying that, but the question needs to be asked".

 

[Palerider]

do we know this shooter was far left ?

Does it matter? All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics. That's mentally sick surely?

 

[Dubai Blue]

Jumping off the rooftop



This one’s circulating. Suspect or nay?

I may well be missing something here as I didn't watch the full video, but on the TMZ doorbell footage before the shooting, the guy is limping. The theory was that he had the gun down the leg of his trousers. So where's the gun when he leaps down from that roof and runs off into the housing estate? He didn't leave it on the roof as they found it in the forest behind those houses. And if it was able to be broken down and put in his backpack, why wouldn't he have just done that on his way to the scene instead of shoving it down his trousers?

 

[cucumberman]

I may well be missing something here as I didn't watch the full video, but on the TMZ doorbell footage before the shooting, the guy is limping. The theory was that he had the gun down the leg of his trousers. So where's the gun when he leaps down from that roof and runs off into the housing estate? He didn't leave it on the roof as they found it in the forest behind those houses. And if it was able to be broken down and put in his backpack, why wouldn't he have just done that on his way to the scene instead of shoving it down his trousers?

You have questions. And I don’t have answers.

At this stage, I’m as clever as a rock.

I’ll wait another few days

 

[BlueHammer85]

Does it matter? All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics. That's mentally sick surely?

Unless missed, I don't think anyone on here has said he deserved to be killed have they ?

Go on Elon Musk platform and yes, hundreds/thousands of accounts are celebrating his death - likewise if it was a prominent left wing figure the result would be the same, i suspect by many fake bot accounts from various parts of the world, social media is the darkest thing to happen.

 

[madloaf]

I may well be missing something here as I didn't watch the full video, but on the TMZ doorbell footage before the shooting, the guy is limping. The theory was that he had the gun down the leg of his trousers. So where's the gun when he leaps down from that roof and runs off into the housing estate? He didn't leave it on the roof as they found it in the forest behind those houses. And if it was able to be broken down and put in his backpack, why wouldn't he have just done that on his way to the scene instead of shoving it down his trousers?

Scared of a bag search?

 

[mosssideblue]

Does it matter? All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics. That's mentally sick surely?

What about Putins or Netanyahus politics?

 

[Dubai Blue]

Scared of a bag search?

That occurred to me, but if he was worried they'd be searching bags, you'd think they'd find a massive rifle down his trousers too!

Anyway, I'm needlessly speculating. Obviously no one really knows at this point, and we may never even find out.

 

[Palerider]

What about Putins or Netanyahus politics?

I think Putin , Netanyahu and indeed Hamas are all mentally ill. My favourite word is compromise and anyone who is so up their own arse that they do not accept others views is probably mentally deficient.

 

[SWP's back]

To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.

Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)

Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:

* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3

Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:

* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7

Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:

* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10

Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:

* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16

Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:

* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18

Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:

* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20

Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:

* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24

January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:

* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27

Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:

* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30

Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:

* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34

International Recognition as Extremist:

* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37

General Violence Normalization:

* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40

Sources:

\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)

\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)

\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)

\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)

\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)

\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)

\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)

\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)

\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)

\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)

\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)

\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)

\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)

\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)

\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)

\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)

\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)

\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)

 

[Otamendi's Beard]

Slightly different to attempting "higher education" and failing though.

Does failure define someone? Especially in education?

There are plenty of MPs who no doubt sailed through Eton's system into top conservative positions - with the best grades on offer. I wouldn't class then as particularly successful in their roles.

 

[BlueRockape]

I may well be missing something here as I didn't watch the full video, but on the TMZ doorbell footage before the shooting, the guy is limping. The theory was that he had the gun down the leg of his trousers. So where's the gun when he leaps down from that roof and runs off into the housing estate? He didn't leave it on the roof as they found it in the forest behind those houses. And if it was able to be broken down and put in his backpack, why wouldn't he have just done that on his way to the scene instead of shoving it down his trousers?

Same thoughts

 

[bluejon]

To any others saying “he never advocated for violence” or that all he did was “calmly debate”, some light reading from our friends at Reddit, including sources.

Charlie Kirk's Documented Calls for Political Violence (2012-2024)

Direct Calls for Death and Public Executions:

* Called for President Biden to receive "the death penalty for his crimes against America" (July 2023)\^1
* "Death penalties should be public, should be quick, it should be televised. I think at a certain age, its an initiation...What age should you start to see public executions?" - suggested children should watch (2024)\^2
* Called for "Nuremberg-style trials for every gender-affirming clinic doctor" invoking Nazi war crimes imagery (April 2024)\^3

Calling for Lethal Force Against Migrants and Minorities:

* Advocated lethal force against migrants: "If you enter, we have lethal force, and we're willing to use it" and "You can start with firing next to them" (March 2024)\^4
* Advocated using whips against migrants, asking "Why is that controversial?"\^5
* Warned of "enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes" requiring armed response\^6
* Directed supporters: "Buy weapons. Buy ammo. If you go into a public place, bring a gun with you"\^7

Violent Anti-LGBTQ+ Statements:

* Said he "would've loved" if fathers "formed a line" to physically confront transgender athletes: "you're going to have to come through us"\^8
* Called transgender people "an abomination" and "a throbbing middle finger to God"\^9
* Advocated handling LGBTQ+ people "the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s" (era of criminalization and forced institutionalization)\^10

Extreme Anti-Black and Antisemitic Rhetoric:

* Called George Floyd a "scumbag"\^11
* Said Civil Rights Act of 1964 was a "huge mistake"\^12
* "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified'"\^13
* Called Martin Luther King Jr. "awful" and "not a good person"\^14
* Claimed Jewish people control "not just the colleges; it's the nonprofits, it's the movies, it's Hollywood, it's all of it"\^15
* "The philosophical foundation of anti-whiteness has been largely financed by Jewish donors in the country"\^16

Great Replacement Theory and White Supremacist Messaging:

* Promoted "Great Replacement" theory: "not a theory, it's a reality" - Democrats seek to "diminish and decrease white demographics in America"\^17
* SPLC documents Kirk warning that "native born Americans are being replaced by foreigners" and promising Trump will "liberate" the country from "the enemy occupation of the foreigner hordes"\^18

Celebrating and Normalizing Violence:

* Said gun deaths are "worth it" to preserve Second Amendment rights\^19
* Promoted Christian nationalist "Seven Mountain Mandate" ideology calling for theocratic takeover through "spiritual warfare"\^20

Targeting and Harassment Campaigns:

* Created "Professor Watchlists" that resulted in death threats, rape threats, and antisemitic harassment\^21
* Arizona State University President documented that Kirk's watchlist generated "antisemitic, anti-LGBTQ+ and misogynistic attacks on ASU faculty"\^22
* One professor resigned after "nearly a year of harassment by right-wing, white supremacist media outlets"\^23
* Maintained "School Board Watchlists" targeting local education officials\^24

January 6 Capitol Attack Organization:

* Organized "80+ buses full of patriots to D.C. to fight for this president"\^25
* Admitted receiving "500 emails a minute calling for a civil war" before January 6\^26
* Pleaded the Fifth over 70 times when questioned by House January 6 Committee\^27

Civil Rights Organizations' Classification as Extremist:

* Southern Poverty Law Center added Turning Point USA to official "Hate Map" as "antigovernment extremist group" (2024)\^28
* Anti-Defamation League documents Kirk's systematic antisemitic rhetoric\^29
* Academic research from Cambridge Core and Brookings Institution documents Kirk's rhetoric following established patterns of stochastic terrorism\^30

Documented Legal Consequences and Criminal Investigations:

* Federal Election Commission fined Kirk's organization $18,000 for campaign finance violations\^31
* Multiple universities paid settlements totaling tens of thousands of dollars after Kirk's "Professor Watchlist" resulted in documented death threats\^32
* Criminal charges filed in multiple states against TPUSA personnel for violent confrontations, including felony assault charges in Arizona\^33
* Yolo County District Attorney investigating coordinated attacks at UC Davis that could result in felony charges carrying up to three years in prison\^34

International Recognition as Extremist:

* Socialist Worker UK described his content as a "cesspit of far right lies, vile racism, transphobia"\^35
* CBC Canada documented his "combative style" as making him a "potent political force" in promoting extremist ideologies\^36
* Al Jazeera noted Kirk's "provocative style" as deliberately inflammatory political messaging\^37

General Violence Normalization:

* Regularly promoted false claims about 2020 election integrity leading to January 6\^38
* Systematic rhetoric describing Democratic governance as illegitimate\^39
* Network Contagion Research Institute documents Kirk's systematic provision of mainstream legitimacy to white nationalist figures\^40

Sources:

\^1 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...son-andor-given-death-penalty-crimes-against)

\^2 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...kirk-death-penalty-public-executions-1873073)

\^3 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...e-trial-every-gender-affirming-clinic-doctor)

\^4 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^5 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...igrants-southern-border-if-you-enter-we-have)

\^6 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^7 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^8 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^9 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^10 [https://www.mediamatters.org/charli...goted-rhetoric-he-was-first-guest-california)

\^11 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^12 [https://www.breezyscroll.com/world/...rld/the-us/charlie-kirk-controversial-takes/)

\^13 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl...s/world/charlie-kirk-controversies-1.7630859)

\^14 [https://populartimelines.com/timeli...timeline/Charlie-Kirk/controversies-scandals)

\^15 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^16 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^17 [https://www.politifact.com/factchec...mented-immigrants-are-not-proof-of-a-scheme/)

\^18 [https://www.splcenter.org/resources...urning-point-usa-case-study-hard-right-2024/)

\^19 [https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/c...om/fact-check/charlie-kirk-gun-deaths-quote/)

\^20 [https://politicalresearch.org/strat...sa-increasingly-leaning-right-wing-christian)

\^21 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^22 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^23 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profe...://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor_Watchlist)

\^24 [https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/...ning.com/p/we-must-not-posthumously-sanitize)

\^25 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-insurrection-buses-washington-tweet-1560727)

\^26 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^27 [https://www.newsweek.com/charlie-ki...-fifth-asked-his-age-jan-6-committee-1768952)

\^28 [https://www.washingtontimes.com/new...lc-laughingstock-listing-turning-point-hate/)

\^29 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^30 [https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...-on-twitter/8BCBD1F909A861589D93F7124AFE1A7E)

\^31 [https://www.citizensforethics.org/n...point-action-fined-following-crew-complaint/)

\^32 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^33 [https://www.adl.org/resources/backg...org/resources/backgrounder/turning-point-usa)

\^34 [https://www.statepress.com/article/...icle/2023/11/turning-point-response-overview)

\^35 [https://socialistworker.co.uk/comme...charlie-kkkirks-chickens-come-home-to-roost/)

\^36 [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/charl.../world/charlie-kirk-death-reaction-1.7630652)

\^37 [https://time.com/7316280/charlie-ki...316280/charlie-kirk-dead-political-violence/)

\^38 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie\_Kirk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Kirk)

\^39 [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/...ul-rhetoric-connects-to-real-world-violence/)

\^40 [https://libcom.org/article/network-...ate-fight-political-infection-left-and-right)

can't beat a well referenced post.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Has anyone posted his most famous video yet?



Cheap shot, but still funny.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Does it matter? All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics. That's mentally sick surely?

It matters to everyone I find. Nowadays it's difficult to be middle ground, nearly everyone blindly hates the other side. Both sides are as sick as each other.

 

[hcblue95]

I've never heard of this guy and I suspect that's the case for 90% of the UK. I'm surprised the story is rumbling along as front page news over here.

 

[SWP's back]

I remember it coming up on a video that the idea of some sort of crack sniper is a bit of a myth from a skill perspective. They mentioned that most soldiers can be fairly quickly trained up to the level of accuracy required. The difficult part is the psychological element. Most people are not willing, even if subconsciously, to kill someone who's not threatening them from a distance without them ever knowing about it.

I tend to agree with this guy on the matter.



Time will tell either way.

 

[robbieh]

Does it matter? All you have to do is read the comments on here to understand that a lot of people are finding an excuse to justify the killing based purely on the victims politics. That's mentally sick surely?

No one has done that. You are making stuff up.

A lot of people have pointed out that it is ironic some of his comments re the 2nd amendment have come back to haunt him. People have also pointed out that he was a nasty piece of work or at least pretending to be to make himself rich.
That does not mean I or others think that his murder was justified.

 

[DrBlueBob]

Does failure define someone? Especially in education?

There are plenty of MPs who no doubt sailed through Eton's system into top conservative positions - with the best grades on offer. I wouldn't class then as particularly successful in their roles.

To your first point; it can do, or maybe not.

I would have thought someone who had got a top conservative position would be deemed a success by many. If you don't see it that way way then fair enough.