The Labour Government

[hilts]

Surely it’d be the opposite?

I think i must be misunderstanding the point being made then, I only skimmed it tbh.

 

[stonerblue]

Broadly I would agree with this. But I would just add, why doesn't the government do something creative like giving tax breaks for having kids? We need a growing domestic population for many reasons, so encouraging Brits to have kids is good in principle. But there are incentives you can provide that don't simply rely on handouts that potentially can reward the feckless. How about rewarding hard work? Free childcare for families with both parents working full time, for example?

Been advocating free child care for ages, as have grandads..
Also good for single parents.

 

[hampshireblue]

Been advocating free child care for ages, as have grandads..
Also good for single parents.

Or an increase in tax fee allowance for parents?

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

And the taxation levels to fund those figures are what? I'll save you the trouble: Just considering income tax on £100000p/a or the equivalent in SEK. Income tax in Sweden is 38% compared to 31% in the UK. So a tax uplift of 15-20% will help get you a decent state pension. Now are you happy to pay that?

PS. Norway and Denmark pensions are nearly 50% above Sweden's.

Of course he’s not. He wants US levels of taxation and Scandi levels of public service.
I’d let him have his tax and insurance back as long as he was told he’d get absolutely nothing in return. I’m sure he’d be fine. Until he wasn’t…

 

[BobKowalski]

Broadly I would agree with this. But I would just add, why doesn't the government do something creative like giving tax breaks for having kids? We need a growing domestic population for many reasons, so encouraging Brits to have kids is good in principle. But there are incentives you can provide that don't simply rely on handouts that potentially can reward the feckless. How about rewarding hard work? Free childcare for families with both parents working full time, for example?

Free or subsidised childcare and better incentives would be a positive step for parents, but it will have little to no effect on the birthrate. Declining domestic population is pretty much baked in. Changing societal attitudes, education and healthcare are the driving factors.

 

[Kompany Car]

I was speaking to some people from Sweden and I asked what is the average pension there. The reply was depends what you have contributed . I said what is the average . I was astounded when they said about 4,000 Euros a month.
Can that be true? The best pension . Luxmenburg 6500Euro a month

Its complicated. The fixed basic pension in Sweden is around the same as the UK, there is then an income related element which you opt into, the more you get paid and hence pay in the more you get back in pension at retirement. The max that this can reach is around 50k SEK or 4k per month. There is then another final bit which is supplementary insurance which you can pay into as a pension.

To get the £4k per month you would need to be on a high salary, above the threshold what would constitute a higher rate tax payer in the UK. You certainly dont get it if you are on a minimum wage or have been unemployed.

But you do pay in considerably more than NI contributions and they also dont pay the basic pension to element if you choose to live outside of Sweden. So if you want a retirement of fun in the sun, you have to ensure you have been earning a big wage for a long time whilst in Sweden or have money from somewhere else. Hence the lack of a TV programme called "Bargain Loving Swedes In The Sun".

 

[Chippy_boy]

Best tax reform they could do is to treat couples as a single tax entity.
A couple, both earning £51k get over £900 more, per month, than one of them earning £102k, which is madness.

That would discourage people from getting married, which would also be madness.

I was on the receiving end of the injustice you cite though.

Prior to my retirement, I was fortunate to earn over £125k per year most years (and my wife did not work), which meant that we got no personal allowance whatsoever, and paid circa 85% of my pay at 40% tax rate. Vs my neighbours who worked for the NHS, earning about 60k each. That meant they both got a £12.5k personal allowance, and paid nearly all of their income tax at 20%.

Although our households earned the same, the difference in our net income was stark. £93k take home for them vs my £78k. I know I should not complain about such a figure, but our houses are the same - we live on a housing estate - and there is 2 of them and 2 of us. Yet we were vastly worse off.

To put it another way, on these figures, they were around £60 per day better off than us, just because of the tax system. Galling, to say the least. And they got a much better pension and more holidays.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Its complicated. The fixed basic pension in Sweden is around the same as the UK, there is then an income related element which you opt into, the more you get paid and hence pay in the more you get back in pension at retirement. The max that this can reach is around 50k SEK or 4k per month. There is then another final bit which is supplementary insurance which you can pay into as a pension.

To get the £4k per month you would need to be on a high salary, above the threshold what would constitute a higher rate tax payer in the UK. You certainly dont get it if you are on a minimum wage or have been unemployed.

But you do pay in considerably more than NI contributions and they also dont pay the basic pension to element if you choose to live outside of Sweden. So if you want a retirement of fun in the sun, you have to ensure you have been earning a big wage for a long time whilst in Sweden or have money from somewhere else. Hence the lack of a TV programme called "Bargain Loving Swedes In The Sun".

It is true however that the UK pension is shite compared to most comparable countries, which is why it is so fucking galling as I approach retirement and my pitiful state pension, that after paying a fucking fortune in tax for donkey's years, the bastards are thinking of making the state pension even worse by binning the triple lock.

This cuts to the core of why the country is up in arms at the moment. People - middle and high earners especially - have paying a shit load of tax for fucking years and getting fuck all back for it.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Free or subsidised childcare and better incentives would be a positive step for parents, but it will have little to no effect on the birthrate. Declining domestic population is pretty much baked in. Changing societal attitudes, education and healthcare are the driving factors.

I agree about the need for the latter, but I disagree that free childcare would not increase birthrates. Imagine being a couple with 1 person working and the other staying at home to look after the kids. The prospect of being able to be significantly better off if you both worked, because you'd then be eligible for free childcare? I think that would provide a good incentive and a big boost to both the economy and the birth rate.

 

[Blue Maverick]

See the useless bastards are now ‘pausing’ the northern powerhouse rail. Burnham will be livid, and rightly so.
So much for cancelling HS2 but ring-fencing £12b for that railway upgrade.

Really got no idea what this shower are up-to and can only imagine a few of them have had thousands on Farage being the next PM!

Would this mean there would be no money for the scum to move the swamp now, if so I applaud them.

 

[Blue Maverick]

It is true however that the UK pension is shite compared to most comparable countries, which is why it is so fucking galling as I approach retirement and my pitiful state pension, that after paying a fucking fortune in tax for donkey's years, the bastards are thinking of making the state pension even worse by binning the triple lock.

This cuts to the core of why the country is up in arms at the moment. People - middle and high earners especially - have paying a shit load of tax for fucking years and getting fuck all back for it.

Let’s face it pal once you’ve retired they just want you to die so you aren’t a burden and your house comes up for sale, mad how they’ve wanted people to do the right thing and save for retirement and then fuck you over when you do. Remember when Brown told everyone to buy diesel as it was better then they pumped the price of that up, wouldn’t piss on them if they were all on fire.

 

[Metal Biker]

Government issued Digital ID cards to be introduced.

 

[BobKowalski]

I agree about the need for the latter, but I disagree that free childcare would not increase birthrates. Imagine being a couple with 1 person working and the other staying at home to look after the kids. The prospect of being able to be significantly better off if you both worked, because you'd then be eligible for free childcare? I think that would provide a good incentive and a big boost to both the economy and the birth rate.

France have tried it with tax breaks for larger families, subsidised childcare etc. Women no longer see having children as their goal and certainly not 3 or 4 children. One child, two at best. It is a change in attitudes linked to education and improved healthcare. A Gen Z poll in the US asked respondents to rank the 20 most important things that mattered to them. For young men, marriage and children/family were the top two. For young women these were the bottom two.

Every developed country has seen a steady decline in the birthrate and no amount of financial incentive thrown at the issue halts that decline. How many young women say they want 3 or 4 kids compared to saying they want a fulfilling career and to enjoy life?

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Government issued Digital ID cards to be introduced.

I’ve read it’s being done to help stop illegal migration. I can’t say I know enough about it, but how does an id stop someone working illegally or in the black market? Most illegal migrants coming here have no ID anyway.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Let’s face it pal once you’ve retired they just want you to die so you aren’t a burden and your house comes up for sale, mad how they’ve wanted people to do the right thing and save for retirement and then fuck you over when you do. Remember when Brown told everyone to buy diesel as it was better then they pumped the price of that up, wouldn’t piss on them if they were all on fire.

Which my friend is why I hate most politicians and civil servants. I'd shrink the house of commons by half - 300 MPs is more than enough. Get rid of half the civil servants, at least. I want as few of them as possible, trying to fuck me over as little as possible.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

That would discourage people from getting married, which would also be madness.

I was on the receiving end of the injustice you cite though.

Prior to my retirement, I was fortunate to earn over £125k per year most years (and my wife did not work), which meant that we got no personal allowance whatsoever, and paid circa 85% of my pay at 40% tax rate. Vs my neighbours who worked for the NHS, earning about 60k each. That meant they both got a £12.5k personal allowance, and paid nearly all of their income tax at 20%.

Although our households earned the same, the difference in our net income was stark. £93k take home for them vs my £78k. I know I should not complain about such a figure, but our houses are the same - we live on a housing estate - and there is 2 of them and 2 of us. Yet we were vastly worse off.

To put it another way, on these figures, they were around £60 per day better off than us, just because of the tax system. Galling, to say the least. And they got a much better pension and more holidays.

Why would it discourage marriage? What I’m suggesting is that a couple effectively share their tax allowances, a bit like IHT.
So, for a married couple, the tax free amount would be, in approximate numbers, £25k and the 20% rate would apply to £100k. If anything, it’s the benefits system discourages marriage and, in a perverse way, actually encourages living apart.
For benefits purposes, you and your partner count almost as a single entity but, for tax purposes, you’re deemed as individuals.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Would this mean there would be no money for the scum to move the swamp now, if so I applaud them.

More likely that’s why the rail line is paused so the scum can get their way.

 

[hampshireblue]

It is true however that the UK pension is shite compared to most comparable countries, which is why it is so fucking galling as I approach retirement and my pitiful state pension, that after paying a fucking fortune in tax for donkey's years, the bastards are thinking of making the state pension even worse by binning the triple lock.

This cuts to the core of why the country is up in arms at the moment. People - middle and high earners especially - have paying a shit load of tax for fucking years and getting fuck all back for it.

And herein lies the problem. People assume they have "paid in" and that then is their right to a decent pension. We have seen that other countries that have a signifiacantly higher pension also have a significantly higher tax burden. If you want low taxes, the provision for a decent pension lies with the individual. The state pension is at it's best ever in real terms so it should come as no surprise that it is pretty poor in comparison to other countries.

On average someone will get about 20 years of state pension so around £240k in today's money. But someone on average earnngs will pay in about £44k of NI that goes towards pensions.

The triple lock is simply unaffordable in the medium/long term as the pensioner population rises and those working and paying for those pensions drops. It has to be paid for somehow. Chippy is one of the most vocal about not wanting any further tax rises(who does), but now has the gall to complain about a less than brilliant state pension.

We're of a similar age, but paying in 10% to a company/private pension was paramount since the age of 18 as it was obvious the state pension was not going to provide nothing more than a scant standard of living. Ironically paying into a company/private pension has meant less tax paid due to the tax relief.

The elephant in the room is that many of those 50+ at least have a roof over their head that they own even if their income is low. What happens in a few years when there are more and more turning pension age that don't own a property and so will be needing additional state accommodation support over and above the pension to be able to survive? I don't have any clue how that gets resolved.

 

[LangleyBlue1970]

Government issued Digital ID cards to be introduced.

My conspiracy theorist friend is up in arms about this for some reason.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

My conspiracy theorist friend is up in arms about this for some reason.

It’s a pointless exercise that, far from doing anything useful, will lead to people being arrested for ‘not carrying it’. It’ll be sold as a way to ‘stop illegal migration’ but will, of course, do no such thing.