The Labour Government

Chippy_boy said:
It is true however that the UK pension is shite compared to most comparable countries, which is why it is so fucking galling as I approach retirement and my pitiful state pension, that after paying a fucking fortune in tax for donkey's years, the bastards are thinking of making the state pension even worse by binning the triple lock.

This cuts to the core of why the country is up in arms at the moment. People - middle and high earners especially - have paying a shit load of tax for fucking years and getting fuck all back for it.
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And herein lies the problem. People assume they have "paid in" and that then is their right to a decent pension. We have seen that other countries that have a signifiacantly higher pension also have a significantly higher tax burden. If you want low taxes, the provision for a decent pension lies with the individual. The state pension is at it's best ever in real terms so it should come as no surprise that it is pretty poor in comparison to other countries.

On average someone will get about 20 years of state pension so around £240k in today's money. But someone on average earnngs will pay in about £44k of NI that goes towards pensions.

The triple lock is simply unaffordable in the medium/long term as the pensioner population rises and those working and paying for those pensions drops. It has to be paid for somehow. Chippy is one of the most vocal about not wanting any further tax rises(who does), but now has the gall to complain about a less than brilliant state pension.

We're of a similar age, but paying in 10% to a company/private pension was paramount since the age of 18 as it was obvious the state pension was not going to provide nothing more than a scant standard of living. Ironically paying into a company/private pension has meant less tax paid due to the tax relief.

The elephant in the room is that many of those 50+ at least have a roof over their head that they own even if their income is low. What happens in a few years when there are more and more turning pension age that don't own a property and so will be needing additional state accommodation support over and above the pension to be able to survive? I don't have any clue how that gets resolved.
 
LangleyBlue1970 said:
My conspiracy theorist friend is up in arms about this for some reason.
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It’s a pointless exercise that, far from doing anything useful, will lead to people being arrested for ‘not carrying it’. It’ll be sold as a way to ‘stop illegal migration’ but will, of course, do no such thing.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Why would it discourage marriage? What I’m suggesting is that a couple effectively share their tax allowances, a bit like IHT.
So, for a married couple, the tax free amount would be, in approximate numbers, £25k and the 20% rate would apply to £100k. If anything, it’s the benefits system discourages marriage and, in a perverse way, actually encourages living apart.
For benefits purposes, you and your partner count almost as a single entity but, for tax purposes, you’re deemed as individuals.
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Sorry I misunderstood. When you said "Best tax reform they could do is to treat couples as a single tax entity. A couple, both earning £51k get over £900 more, per month, than one of them earning £102k, which is madness." the implication is that such couples they should pay £900 more in tax than they do now. Which would discourage them from marrying, rather staying single to get twice the personal allowance and lower tax rates.
 
Chippy_boy said:
It is true however that the UK pension is shite compared to most comparable countries, which is why it is so fucking galling as I approach retirement and my pitiful state pension, that after paying a fucking fortune in tax for donkey's years, the bastards are thinking of making the state pension even worse by binning the triple lock.

This cuts to the core of why the country is up in arms at the moment. People - middle and high earners especially - have paying a shit load of tax for fucking years and getting fuck all back for it.
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We all agree that the state pension is poor but its poor because of how its funded. In some countries in Europe the money you pay in does go into a pot and is invested by the government, in ours it doesn't its just a pyramid scheme.

Comparing what you get in the UK and what you get somewhere else just doesn't work. Im sure there would be loads of complaints if we did as in Sweden where you pay much more in tax than in the UK and where those with high salaries get more than those on low salaries as a state pension with no real means testing.

For someone like me I would be quids in if we did that, but it would result in much more inequality in old age which isn't good.
 
Kompany Car said:
We all agree that the state pension is poor but its poor because of how its funded. In some countries in Europe the money you pay in does go into a pot and is invested by the government, in ours it doesn't its just a pyramid scheme.

Comparing what you get in the UK and what you get somewhere else just doesn't work. Im sure there would be loads of complaints if we did as in Sweden where you pay much more in tax than in the UK and where those with high salaries get more than those on low salaries as a state pension with no real means testing.

For someone like me I would be quids in if we did that, but it would result in much more inequality in old age which isn't good.
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I agree with your logic and conclusions (that a load of people would complain about it). But it seems inherently fairer to me that the more you put in, the more you get out. And inherently unfair that people who have hardly contributed at all should get as much as someone who has paid in hundreds of thousands. Paraphrasing Gordon Gekko, inequality is good. What incentive is there to go the extra mile in life if there is no reward for it, or worse, you are penalised for it.

I am sure that view is not popular on here (understatement - I await the abuse!), but it is the Labour Government thread after all.
 
John John said:
I don't want to extend it anywhere. If you have contributed you are allowed to claim it and use it . End of
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Most of us start in deficit for what we've personally put in to the UK. Free education, free health care, free use of playgrounds...
 
John John said:
I was speaking to some people from Sweden and I asked what is the average pension there. The reply was depends what you have contributed . I said what is the average . I was astounded when they said about 4,000 Euros a month.
Can that be true? The best pension . Luxmenburg 6500Euro a month
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Lots of immigrants in Luxembourg
 
Chippy_boy said:
That would discourage people from getting married, which would also be madness.

I was on the receiving end of the injustice you cite though.

Prior to my retirement, I was fortunate to earn over £125k per year most years (and my wife did not work), which meant that we got no personal allowance whatsoever, and paid circa 85% of my pay at 40% tax rate. Vs my neighbours who worked for the NHS, earning about 60k each. That meant they both got a £12.5k personal allowance, and paid nearly all of their income tax at 20%.

Although our households earned the same, the difference in our net income was stark. £93k take home for them vs my £78k. I know I should not complain about such a figure, but our houses are the same - we live on a housing estate - and there is 2 of them and 2 of us. Yet we were vastly worse off.

To put it another way, on these figures, they were around £60 per day better off than us, just because of the tax system. Galling, to say the least. And they got a much better pension and more holidays.
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A) Someone paid you 125k a year?, you?
B) Poor thing, you must know how a kid from Chad feels, pmsl.
C) Wife did fuck all what were you expecting
 
hilts said:
A) Someone paid you 125k a year?, you?
B) Poor thing, you must know how a kid from Chad feels, pmsl.
C) Wife did fuck all what were you expecting
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So he earned that much and is moaning about the state pension? He's had ample opportunity to fund a decent private pension and get 40% tax relief in the process-double the couple he's comparing himself to.

He's admitted months ago he chose the career he went into. He knew the T&Cs but did it anyway-your choice Chippy.
Mrs Chippy (poor mare!!) had opportunity to go out to work and take advantage of her personal allowance but didn't-her choice(ill health excluded of course)
There are many of us who would prefer to have a household tax allowance from a purely selfish POV, but it has been a personal allowance for many years, in part to give a sense of freedom to all individuals ( actually making sure women were treated equally).

If he was on £125k, only the bit above £50k is at 40%, so only about 40%(not 85%) is paid at 40%.

A month agohe said he had not benefitted from a free university education to get his degree ( unless he was in his 50s when he graduated-sorry if so), last week his Cotswold council is broke and can't afford to put a sign up (disproven), and now this nonsense. Oh, and he will "vote for any right wing party" to get Labour out ( so at least a Farage groupie, a racist or worse Fascist)

In an exchange a month or so ago, I got the impression he now realises he chose the wrong career, is jealous of anything in the public sector expecially the pension, and is just plain bitter as the reality of his own under-funded retirement approaches.

He's so far down a rabbit hole not even a Jack Russell could flush him out.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I agree with your logic and conclusions (that a load of people would complain about it). But it seems inherently fairer to me that the more you put in, the more you get out. And inherently unfair that people who have hardly contributed at all should get as much as someone who has paid in hundreds of thousands. Paraphrasing Gordon Gekko, inequality is good. What incentive is there to go the extra mile in life if there is no reward for it, or worse, you are penalised for it.

I am sure that view is not popular on here (understatement - I await the abuse!), but it is the Labour Government thread after all.
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The reward is the higher wages during your whole working life and any private pension you daft twat:-)
 
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