Stop and search argument from another thread.

.db.

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Not stupid at all. Increases in stop and search is needed and it should be targeting anyone that dresses like a gangster. If that's mainly black people so be it.
Mothers of murdered boys in inner-city areas have called for more S&S in inner-city areas for decades. But you get middle-class white people who don’t even live in these areas complaining that minorities are targeted and it’s racist and unfair so the Police scale it down and the problem persists and gets worse.

These Mothers have no intention of specifically targeting black men and boys (especially when most of these Mothers are black themselves), but just targeting areas that are high in knife and gun (and street drugs) crime in inner-cities.

It’s just situational that it sees a higher incidence of black people S&Sd because majority of black and other ethnic minorities live in inner-city areas due to mostly being fairly new immigrant populations, in only really the last 7 decades. Social mobility hasn’t seen a large spread out from these areas yet because generations of minority families haven’t lived here that long yet (my Great Grandad came here from Poland about 115 years ago and me and my Sister are the first generation of that side of our family who didn’t grow up in Moss Side or Cheetham Hill, social mobility can take generations).

Add to that black people being only about 3% of the population, but the areas most of that population live in the inner-city areas targeted for S&S, it’s only natural for the figures to show that black men and boys are disproportionately stopped and searched compared to white men and boys since white men and boys live across a much wider spread of areas in society where S&S isn’t undertaken as much because it isn’t needed as much in leafy suburbs and small countryside towns where knife crime isn’t a problem.
 
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I’m actually a supporter of stop and search.

But where is the extra time/resources coming from? Like everything it’s not as straightforward as it once was-I’d add that grounds ‘dressed like a gangster’ would not be lawful.
It's actually perfectly legal to stop and search anyone with reasonible suspicion and dressing like a knobhead is reasonible suspicion
 
Every long term study of stop and search in the UK and US has shown it to be ineffective at reducing knife crime.

Doesn't work, alienates the communities that get stopped and searched more than others. That's why it's falling out of favour, not because the police can't be bothered.
can you explain the doubling of knife crime since stop and search was stopped then
 
It's actually perfectly legal to stop and search anyone with reasonible suspicion and dressing like a knobhead is reasonible suspicion
it does need reasonable suspicion-but dressing like a knobhead is not reasonable.

I am a supporter of it though:

Personally I would stop everyone after a certain time and stop as many vehicles as possible on nights.
As a supervisor I would encourage my staff to do the same-it helps build their street skills, gets them to interact with the locals who are usually up to no good and does lead to arrests and acts as a deterrent.

That said over the years it has been politicised and whereas in my day it was a simple form you filled in, nowadays like everything, its a convoluted process and is often simply not worth the hassle-and officers have less time to do proactive work.

People will point to its low success rate-circa 10% arrest rate-personally I think that's good.

As a complete aside we were discouraged from parking outside pubs to catch drink drivers..now where do you think the best place to catch drink drivers is? yep, pubs around a mile or so from residential areas...and I would catch several that way. A war story, but my point is that officers should be given the time and encouraged to be proactive rather than reactive recorders of crime.
 
You made the claim. Show the evidence.
like I said go and research the numbers of the met police website they are in plain view you just have to go and look for them. Just because I know how to read statistics whereas others, like you, post gibberish comparing covid periods to today and also not realising Greater Manchester police changed reporting rules and other police areas changed database systems which meant year on year comparisons are meaningless. Instead what you should have done is compared one static police area, the best being the The Met, and look at the change from 2012 to 2025 minus the covid years 2020,2021,2022 to see the true jumps in knife crime. This is proper statistics and how to use them.
 
like I said go and research the numbers of the met police website they are in plain view you just have to go and look for them. Just because I know how to read statistics whereas others, like you, post gibberish comparing covid periods to today and also not realising Greater Manchester police changed reporting rules and other police areas changed database systems which meant year on year comparisons are meaningless. Instead what you should have done is compared one static police area, the best being the The Met, and look at the change from 2012 to 2025 minus the covid years 2020,2021,2022 to see the true jumps in knife crime. This is proper statistics and how to use them.

OK, you clearly don't have any source for your claim. I'll ignore it.
 
Your figures are still total bollocks because you have now changed the narrative. You originally claimed that knife crime had risen due to the end of Stop and Search which as the figures show has not ceased. We all recognise that knife crime has risen but it is nothing to do with your supposed belief that S&S has ceased
 
Your figures are still total bollocks because you have now changed the narrative. You originally claimed that knife crime had risen due to the end of Stop and Search which as the figures show has not ceased. We all recognise that knife crime has risen but it is nothing to do with your supposed belief that S&S has ceased
lol no I didn't but if that comforts you then go for it.
 
Also

@roubaixtuesday and @BerkshireBlue can you take your pointless squabble to PM, nobody is interested in your tit for tat crap, and again it doesn't belong in this thread either.

Thanks
When one person is posting dangerous misleading and biased statistics saying knife crime hasn't risen contradicting the actual statistics, police, and people living in the area then that needs correcting and stopping asap. Disinformation on the subject causes more harm than good. That is all I'll say on the matter. I'll stop now
 
When one person is posting dangerous misleading and biased statistics saying knife crime hasn't risen contradicting the actual statistics, police, and people living in the area then that needs correcting and stopping asap. Disinformation on the subject causes more harm than good. That is all I'll say on the matter. I'll stop now

It has risen but it hasn’t doubled, in fact it’s not far off where it was when stop and search was most prevalent for obvious reasons, you’d need to go back a few more years with the data to see that though.
 
When one person is posting dangerous misleading and biased statistics saying knife crime hasn't risen contradicting the actual statistics, police, and people living in the area then that needs correcting and stopping asap. Disinformation on the subject causes more harm than good. That is all I'll say on the matter. I'll stop now

Please link to said disinformation.

I've posted nothing except from the ONS!
 

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