The Labour Government

BlueHammer85 said:
No, it takes time. something many gave the Tories 14 years without putting up flags and painting roundabouts. Labour have had a year and made far more progress, many bills still going through parliament.
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Far more progress. Progress??? Fuck me sideways, it's a fucking car crash. Ploughing the UK into the dirt at record speed. "Progress" like that we can all do without.
 
.db. said:
Correct.

Sorry for seemingly posting this same thing on the forum (but is that any worse than people just posting their social media echo chamber feeds over and over?!), but people need to fucking get real when it comes to this.

Not enough people think of this from a viewpoint of rationality or the future. People need to start considering it from the wider sense of what the results of the population increasing are, rather than just parrot the same extremely minor positives that an increasing population, which is occurring through mass immigration, brings.

More people living on this island means a worse country in pretty much every aspect of the environment, health, society and economy, apart from maybe more income from taxes. Everything else is a never ending spiral down the shitter.

I don’t want a growing population in Britain. There are already too many people living on this island. Having a larger population who can pay more tax is far outstripped by many other factors:

With the current population size, the UK barely covers electricity demand in the Winter as it is. Plus, it’s estimated that our current water industry will not be able to cover the demand for water required by the growing population by the 2030s.

Are there any initiatives or investment planned to combat this and keep us serviceable for electricity and water with the surges in immigration and ever increasing population?
And even if there are, will these then have a knock-on effect of increasing pollution which is already a massive problem?

The UK is already struggling to cope with the amount of waste/refuse it has to process. Recycling plants can’t turn around the amount of waste it faces, which leads to much going to landfill when investment in landfill has pretty much ended because successive govts have said that we are going to recycle more. And we are running out of landfill space to the point that we may have no more land to use for waste storage within the next eight years. So where’s the waste going to go with an increased population?

Our current cities are heaving. Traffic and the amount of pollution that comes from it, is at dangerous levels. Greater Manchester has some of the most polluted air in Europe; Nitrogen Dioxide levels from motor vehicles in Greater Manchester already significantly exceed World Health Organisation guidelines. Air pollution contributes to 1,200 annual early deaths in Greater Manchester. 1 in 20 of GtrMcr adult deaths are linked to air pollution.

A growing population through immigration of non-skills-shortage-target-people, means there’s a surplus unskilled workforce. Industries like Tech in Manchester are facing huge shortages in a skilled workforce yet we have hundreds of thousands of people coming into the country who don’t meet these required skills. The right people are not coming into this country. The plan around who comes in is very poor. We have a surplus population of people we don’t need. What we need more than anything is to create skills course qualifications for the current population so that employment balances out properly, not just get more and more people in with the hope that some might be able to cover the skills shortage.

Housing in existing cities is poor and insufficient. There aren’t enough homes and, where homes are vacant, the state of them can be appalling and you wouldn’t use them for keeping farm animals, never mind human families with children. There are too many rogue landlords taking advantage of tenants. There are also instances of double the amount of people living in homes than they are supposed to house in inner-city areas.

Current towns and cities, especially Manchester, feel overpopulated. There’s been a net increased population of Manchester Salford Trafford Stockport Tameside and Oldham who’ve arrived in this country in just the last two years. Yet, there are no new cities being built and existing cities are not increasing at that rate. In existing cities, everywhere is extremely busy all the time. If there were plans to develop places like Carlisle, Dundee, Ipswich, Bangor, Plymouth etc. into 2million population cities with mass house building programmes, fair enough. But there isn’t. The govt aim to build 300,000 new homes a year yet that will still fall short of demand for the population size there is currently, never mind a larger population.

Plus even if new cities were built or small cities became big cities, it still wouldn’t help with the need to generate the required electricity and water - and food - demand for more people because it’s not there. And, even if everything was in place for it, pollution would still be made worse so why would we want to do that anyway?

Building new cities and increasing the the size of existing cities means that we would lose green belt land, natural wild habitats, farming land (which has further knock-on effects of not producing enough food for the increasing population and increases of imports which means extra cost and even further pollution), and we would lose parts of our beautiful countryside.

Over 72% of land in England is already farmed land, less than 15% of England is natural wild habitat, with the rest being urban built on or urban parkland. Low wild habitat and low weoodland coverage in Britain has lead to poor soil quality. One-crop farming also leads to poor soil quality. Soil has degraded and eroded, the quality of the food that we grow and graze on farmland is decreasing and it is a contributor to poor health with lack of nutrients and even a reduction in the quality, size and diversity of the microbiome in our guts, which is one of the most important aspects of health (arguably the most important). Plus, we are taking away the small % of wild habitats we have.

None of this is a good thing and all of it gets worse with a growing population.

An increasing population puts further demand on our already struggling public services.

Crime has significantly increased. A decade ago, the Police in England and Wales recorded around 4m annual crimes committed. There’s been a steady increase in that time and in recent years it’s not been below 6.5m. Population increases will see an increase in crime. Why should people have to put up with that as a side effect of increasing the population? It’s not something people want.

Plus with this, the less likely the general population are to get required help from the Police, because they are too busy with the amount of crime being committed in general.

The UK is one of the most unhealthy countries in Europe (granted, that is mainly due to poor lifestyles and diets). The strain on the NHS is huge, to the point that the NHS cannot cope with a 69m population it has now, never mind how it would cope with an increasing population.

As you say, if the growing elderly population is a growing problem now, what will it be like when everyone of working age now gets to to retirement age? They’ll need an even bigger NHS and care service, there’ll need to be an even bigger pension pot. So what then? Just constantly flood the island with more and more people? Constantly putting more and more strain on everything? And house them where? Feed them how? Keep the taps and electricity flowing how? Stop them from contributing to and being a victim of the growing pollution problem how?

There are also far too many issues with an ever polarised and disunited nation with increased immigration. And it seriously is not just an issue with far right bigots, even if the rise of the far-right directly naturally correlates with increased immigration. Every-day, normal, fair-minded people with no extreme views are seeing ever increasing issues with ever increasing immigration.

Many inner-city areas have just become immigrant dumping zones. This sees the existing population feel grievances with the state that these areas become. Small things like some, if not all, the pubs and social clubs shutting in these areas means that social spaces for existing populations decrease or disappear. Pubs and social clubs are often the heartbeat of communities, as places of social communion, sports teams and events. British culture suffers without them and in many places with high immigration, there are no pubs left. The types of businesses in these areas change to cater more for the immigrant population as well; from clothing to food to faith-based sector businesses and charities.

Immigrants being housed in hotels means that the existing local population lose their local place where work meetings, work training, Christmas parties, wakes, birthday parties, school proms, university balls, dance clubs, fitness clubs, wedding receptions, anniversaries, or have people who would visit friends+family for a weekend and need somewhere to stay etc. at these hotels which they were built for and were used for previously, cannot happen anymore. They’re not there for the local populations anymore. They’ve been taken away from existing communities and their grievances with that mostly have nothing to do with who’s there and nothing to do with being right wing, but simply that another community hub is taken away from the community.

The existing population in these areas, and not just the far-right bigots amongst them, naturally tend to end up relocating from these areas because of accumulations of things like this happening because they don’t like how their local community changes. And you never hear of people wanting to move to these areas. This then creates segregation within our towns and cities, which makes integration into British culture more difficult for concentrated immigrant areas. This is something we should be avoiding as a society but is a natural societal move with increasing immigration.

Another negative that comes from this is that right wing bigots cotton onto it and drive it through as an issue for the whole country which sees the rise in far right sentiment towards immigration. They completely miss all the pertinent negatives to it all and drive it as a cultural issue only. It is a cultural issue but not solely a cultural issue. A knock-on negative that comes from that are then the left wing idiots cotton onto the far right issue, who just do anything to argue and shout down the right wing bigots, start to defend immigration at all costs but - exactly like the far right - also completely miss the pertinent negatives to it all, even purposely ignoring them so they don’t gain any traction in discussion because they cannot have anything the far right agree with being discussed in a wider discussion.

And overall, it just adds to the ever growing polarisation of society.

But the roads are a mess, road networks in cities can’t cope with the amount of vehicles on the roads, transport is a mess, schools can’t offer places for the amount of children there are in the country (300,000 children are not on role at a school), white working class children (especially boys) are being left behind in school performance, wages are kept suppressed, poverty is high, the gap between rich and poor is at an all-time high, pollution is at dangerous levels, the environment is impacted and often cannot be reversed, food is becoming less nutritious, the job market is all over the shop, public services cannot cope, housing is in crisis, crime is ever increasing, social cohesion is collapsing and getting ever more polarised, racial segregation is becoming facet of our communities… all because of an increase in the population and immigration.

There’s no way that there are more positives than negatives to having a larger population and further immigration.

In 2010 there was a study done by the Migration Observatory that said that an ideal UK population size would be between 30-60m for the infrastructure we had and planned to have. Yet, we’re now at 69m and by the 2040s the current rate of increase would see a 77m population. This is a massive ‘NO!’ for me. We are not ready for it, we are already not coping.

Every single negative aspect to a growing population increases with an ever growing population. Even where people draw positives from a growing population, they can only be maintained and addressed through an even higher growth in population because it’s unsustainable and with that comes all the negatives from an ever growing population.

More people = a worse country.
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Won't be long till someone tries to disprove a small section of this or make a daft statement, whilst ignoring all the points you have raised.
 
Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper is speaking in Berlin at the moment, alongside her German counterpart.

The pair confirm that Germany will change its law - by the end of the year - to allow for closing work between the two nations on stopping small boat crossings in the Channel.

Cooper says the change will mean "our police will jointly be able to pursue the criminal gangs who have been storing small boats in warehouses across Germany, who have been exploiting our borders right across Europe and into the UK, in order to make a vile profit from trading in human lives".

The change in law in Germany will make it illegal to facilitate migrant crossings in the Channel.
 
Pingu the Penguin said:
PAC giving the government a kicking on NHS reform and performance

The Government announced that it would abolish NHSE and centralise its functions into the DHSC during the PAC’s 13 March 2025 evidence session. It has still not set out how this major structural and operational change will impact key services and targets to improve patient care. Other areas where government was unable to provide clarity to the PAC’s inquiry include:
  • The lack of a clear plan for how DHSC and NHSE will achieve significant headcount reductions, and the costsra
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Rather than handing out redundancy payments, they should be looking at redeployment where it's at all possible for NHS England staff or TUPE'ing them into local authority jobs of similar skill sets. Fair job offers should be made and, for those refusing, they forego any right to redundancy pay.
 
abu13 said:
Nett migration is down because of the number if Brits leaving the country 257k if them in 2024, and these arent the ones who are struggling over here. Its the people eith wealth that are going, the ones who prop up much of the taxation here.

Theres a shitstorm brewing and things need to change quickly.
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The ones that pay as little tax as possible by hiding their money in other countries?
 
BlueHammer85 said:
Foreign Secretary Yvette Cooper is speaking in Berlin at the moment, alongside her German counterpart.

The pair confirm that Germany will change its law - by the end of the year - to allow for closing work between the two nations on stopping small boat crossings in the Channel.

Cooper says the change will mean "our police will jointly be able to pursue the criminal gangs who have been storing small boats in warehouses across Germany, who have been exploiting our borders right across Europe and into the UK, in order to make a vile profit from trading in human lives".

The change in law in Germany will make it illegal to facilitate migrant crossings in the Channel.
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So we are back to smashing the gangs then?
And from what I've seen of the millions already given to France it won't make the slightest difference.
 
abu13 said:
Some of them yes, but there are plenty of others who have given up on the country and moved on, they're not all multi millionaires. People have had enough.
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People seem to imagine it's all billionaires as well, but it isn't. If you work in IT for e.g. Oracle as I did, then I could have chosen to bugger off to pretty much anywhere in the world. I am retired now, so no point but were I still in my 40's or 50's, I'd be off. I have countless mates who have done exactly this. Some to Dubai, others to Australia and New Zealand. Not paying vast amount of tax here, but earning £100k, £150k for example and for each one of them it's like £40k of income tax down the swanny plus all the VAT on their domestic spend.

The net migration figures don't at all tell the full story. We're losing highly paid people such as above, and bringing in people who are often (pedant alert, not all) low paid and on benefits.
 
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bluethrunthru said:
cheap labour is the hook - see also man of fighting age and illegal migrants - its a right wing trope.

Plumbers were earning loads we were told in the early 2000's yet at the same time Polish plumbers were putting British plumbers on the dole at the same time when clearly British plumbers charging £1 an hour less could have simply undercut them. The rhetoric has never made any sense but the gullible will swallow it.

I know loads of people in my boat - encouraged to have a private pension so are retiring early - no reason and no desire to go back. You work 43 years you have done your time. An apprentice isn't made overnight - it took me a number of years to get the professional qualifications needed to progress. We haven't pulled any ladders up behind us the employers took them away - we have long since stopped "training our own" up.

Immigrants are not the panacea but they are part of a mixed answer. I'd much rather have a 30 year old firefighter attending an emergency at my home rather than a 72 year old just because the latter was born in the UK. In any event that 72 year old will eventually retire and the plan you were asking him for doesn't explain who is training the youngster and where are they coming from? There is no plan.
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Your answer to competing with immigrant labour is for those here to reduce their price/wage to compete? This has got to be wind up surely!?!?!
 
Saddleworth2 said:
This report makes poor reading for the Labour Government. It does demonstrates how we don't have politicians that are smart enough, focused enough, determined enough to actually deliver on their promises and that goes for Labour, SNP and Tories

www.theguardian.com

Lack of planning has hit Labour’s efforts to fix public services, says thinktank

Keir Starmer accused of failing to adequately strategise while in opposition, leading to uncoordinated policymaking
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Exactly the point I was making on here the other day.
 
Why the fuck are they not cutting spend, the amount of money we throw away is mind boggling.
The country is on its knees, there are difficult decisions that need to be made but Labour wont make them
 
Blue Maverick said:
Rumours freezing the tax free allowance until 2030 now, fuck me, you’ll be paying tax on the state pension, hitting those on low incomes, utter shite.
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Really strange for a Labour government, you'd think raising the tax allowance while increasing the higher tax band rate would assist the lower paid. That said the last 45 years of British Governments have been baffling.
 
Chippy_boy said:
People seem to imagine it's all billionaires as well, but it isn't. If you work in IT for e.g. Oracle as I did, then I could have chosen to bugger off to pretty much anywhere in the world. I am retired now, so no point but were I still in my 40's or 50's, I'd be off. I have countless mates who have done exactly this. Some to Dubai, others to Australia and New Zealand. Not paying vast amount of tax here, but earning £100k, £150k for example and for each one of them it's like £40k of income tax down the swanny plus all the VAT on their domestic spend.

The net migration figures don't at all tell the full story. We're losing highly paid people such as above, and bringing in people who are often (pedant alert, not all) low paid and on benefits.
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Why is there no point in buggering off if you’re retired? Surely, in your case, as someone who’s coined it in working in IT you’d be happier being somewhere where you don’t spend all day moaning about foreigners and lefties ruining the country. Costa del Sol or Cyprus maybe, where they only have expats not immigrants.
 
abu13 said:
Why the fuck are they not cutting spend, the amount of money we throw away is mind boggling.
The country is on its knees, there are difficult decisions that need to be made but Labour wont make them
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Cut all foreign aid
Abandon looney Ed's net zero white elephant
Stop pissing about with the boats and putting those already here up in hotels
Far too many bone idle fookers on benefits
Sort out the billions wasted in the public sector

Be no need for any tax rises
 
maxwellblue said:
Cut all foreign aid
Abandon looney Ed's net zero white elephant
Stop pissing about with the boats and putting those already here up in hotels
Far too many bone idle fookers on benefits
Sort out the billions wasted in the public sector

Be no need for any tax rises
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Yes,
I see so much abuse of the system that its sickening. People who wont work overtime as they get topped up with benefits, people driving round in £45k mobility cars while going on holiday abroad 3 times a year. People in their mid 40's in higher education who have never actualy worked a day in their lives and have no intention of doing so. Others who are addicts who feel the world owes them everything and then spunk the benefits on drink and drugs.

And just to be clear, all of these are examples from my own extended family circle.
 
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