Electric cars

[1961_vintage]

The one thing for sure, it won't stay at those 3p a mile prices.

We can anticipate a pricing structure such as £3 per mile for motorways at some point in the future.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Imagine if we all fucked cars off then what, car taxes prop up a lot of other services and they know it, if we all jumped on buses and trams guess what fares would treble.

 

[Norbert D]

How socialist of them, oh wait, hang on...

Below are wealth estimates and details for key Cabinet ministers in the current government:

• Sir Keir Starmer (Prime Minister): His net worth is estimated to be around £7.7 million to £14 million.
• Rachel Reeves (Chancellor of the Exchequer): Her and her husband's combined net worth is estimated at around £2 million to £3 million. Before becoming Chancellor, she stated that despite her MP's salary, the cost of living crisis left her "increasingly short" financially after paying bills.
• David Lammy (Deputy Prime Minister and Lord Chancellor): His net worth is estimated at around £5 million. He has earned significant income from second jobs and speaking engagements in the past, including over £200,000 between December 2019 and January 2023.
• Yvette Cooper (Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs): Her net worth (potentially combined with her husband Ed Balls) is estimated at around £4.5 million to £5 million.
• Wes Streeting (Secretary of State for Health and Social Care): His wealth is primarily tied to his salary and donations for his political office. He has received significant donations from individuals and companies linked to the private health sector, which has been a topic of public discussion.
• Ed Miliband (Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero): His net worth is estimated to be around £15 million.
• Angela Rayner (former Deputy Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government): Her net worth has been estimated at £4.4 million to £4.7 million.

Struggling on, bless them.

Providing they can do a decent job I don’t care how much they are worth.

 

[Earlyriser]

How socialist of them, oh wait, hang on...

Below are wealth estimates and details for key Cabinet ministers in the current government:

• Sir Keir Starmer (Prime Minister): His net worth is estimated to be around £7.7 million to £14 million.
• Rachel Reeves (Chancellor of the Exchequer): Her and her husband's combined net worth is estimated at around £2 million to £3 million. Before becoming Chancellor, she stated that despite her MP's salary, the cost of living crisis left her "increasingly short" financially after paying bills.
• David Lammy (Deputy Prime Minister and Lord Chancellor): His net worth is estimated at around £5 million. He has earned significant income from second jobs and speaking engagements in the past, including over £200,000 between December 2019 and January 2023.
• Yvette Cooper (Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs): Her net worth (potentially combined with her husband Ed Balls) is estimated at around £4.5 million to £5 million.
• Wes Streeting (Secretary of State for Health and Social Care): His wealth is primarily tied to his salary and donations for his political office. He has received significant donations from individuals and companies linked to the private health sector, which has been a topic of public discussion.
• Ed Miliband (Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero): His net worth is estimated to be around £15 million.
• Angela Rayner (former Deputy Prime Minister and Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government): Her net worth has been estimated at £4.4 million to £4.7 million.

Struggling on, bless them.

Would you care to break those figures down into property valuations and cash reserves

 

[Blue Since 76]

Any idea how this tax is going to be implemented? Something to do with a payment based on mileage recorded at an MOT? Although that wouldn't work for new cars that do not need an MOT.

Some sort of system that requires you to enter your mileage, so honesty required, or uploading evidence?

There's a consultation that's just started, but suggestion is you'll declare how many miles you'll think you'll do in a year and pay based on that and then get a refund or bill at the end based on actuals.

As you say, difficulty is going to be in recording it accurately. The MOT is the obvious way, but doesn't help for newer vehicles. Suspect leasing companies will just add it on to their charges, as you pay based on a mileage guess. For anything else, presume the mileage on the V5, which would also have to be used when you sold a car to know what you have used v paid in that year.

There's a danger the implementation and enforcement costs eat up what they collect, but it was always going to go this way with the lost revenue from fuel duty.

 

[bluealf]

Would you care to break those figures down into property valuations and cash reserves

No, but help yourself if you want.

I'll break mine down for you if you want, 20k in the bank, a 130k house (nearly paid off) 35k car (not nearly paid off)

Now, try and imply they aren't rich again, please go on, knock yourself out.

Fucking socialists

 

[bluealf]

Providing they can do a decent job I don’t care how much they are worth.

Well, they are not doing a decent job, so.

Rich socialists, how does that work again?

Ah, I'm all right Jacks, they are worse than Tory's, at least everybody knows what they stand for.

 

[Earlyriser]

No, but help yourself if you want.

I'll break mine down for you if you want, 20k in the bank, a 130k house (nearly paid off) 35k car (not nearly paid off)

Now, try and imply they aren't rich again, please go on, knock yourself out.

Fucking socialists

Two headlines to consider from a certain paper today:
1)

Voting in Keir Starmer was a big mistake... the Budget opens the floodgates for handouts: Benefits Street star White Dee's withering verdict on Rachel Reeves's welfare bonanza​

2)

Prince Edward pays peppercorn rent for his 120-room Surrey mansion Bagshot Park - just like Andrew's favourable Royal Lodge deal​

Who's the scrounger?

 

[bluealf]

Two headlines to consider from a certain paper today:
1)

Voting in Keir Starmer was a big mistake... the Budget opens the floodgates for handouts: Benefits Street star White Dee's withering verdict on Rachel Reeves's welfare bonanza​

2)

Prince Edward pays peppercorn rent for his 120-room Surrey mansion Bagshot Park - just like Andrew's favourable Royal Lodge deal​

Who's the scrounger?

In all fairness, what the fuck has that got to do with anything?

Two cheeks of the same arse, oh sorry, one was the son of a toolmaker and the biggest tool he made was his son.

 

[Blue Maverick]

There's a consultation that's just started, but suggestion is you'll declare how many miles you'll think you'll do in a year and pay based on that and then get a refund or bill at the end based on actuals.

As you say, difficulty is going to be in recording it accurately. The MOT is the obvious way, but doesn't help for newer vehicles. Suspect leasing companies will just add it on to their charges, as you pay based on a mileage guess. For anything else, presume the mileage on the V5, which would also have to be used when you sold a car to know what you have used v paid in that year.

There's a danger the implementation and enforcement costs eat up what they collect, but it was always going to go this way with the lost revenue from fuel duty.

Why not just increase road tax dependent on MPG, so a gas guzzler pays £3k a year, electric £400. Fuck off fuel duty altogether, so the most polluting get hammered and the less not so much, bearing in mind EVs will still be pay extra tax on their electric bill. Might get rid of all those Chelsea tractors on the school run.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Why not just increase road tax dependent on MPG, so a gas guzzler pays £3k a year, electric £400. Fuck off fuel duty altogether, so the most polluting get hammered and the less not so much, bearing in mind EVs will still be pay extra tax on their electric bill. Might get rid of all those Chelsea tractors on the school run.

Very sensible, but like fuel and alcohol taxation is levelled in the name of public health/ getting us to give up, but the reality is the treasury needs the income stream.

 

[bluealf]

Why not just increase road tax dependent on MPG, so a gas guzzler pays £3k a year, electric £400. Fuck off fuel duty altogether, so the most polluting get hammered and the less not so much, bearing in mind EVs will still be pay extra tax on their electric bill. Might get rid of all those Chelsea tractors on the school run.

What about firms, we have 50-60 trucks, I probably do close to 40-50k a year in mine.

As a food supplies firm, delivering to pubs, restaurants, etc, who will ultimately pay the bill for this fuel increase?

The customer and then the next customer, which is you/us.

So once again, we are getting hit in the pocket, while also paying extra for our own personal mileage.

Take, take, take.

 

[fulabeer]

It's like the council run speed cameras. They say they are not for profit and needed for safety, but admit the council would go bust without the fines/income.
In Tameside, they lost the funding for cameras. So they removed every single one. They then got funding for speed humps, so they even appeared on main roads.
When questioned about the need for cameras and safety, they stated cameras weren't as safe as speed humps...funny that!

Emission and congestion zones are just cash cows.
Cars/vans/trucks have always and will always be cash cows. Because they are essential and the government knows this.
VAT is also the biggest crime ever pulled off.

 

[Blue Maverick]

What about firms, we have 50-60 trucks, I probably do close to 40-50k a year in mine.

As a food supplies firm, delivering to pubs, restaurants, etc, who will ultimately pay the bill for this fuel increase?

The customer and then the next customer, which is you/us.

So once again, we are getting hit in the pocket, while also paying extra for our own personal mileage.

Take, take, take.

No idea in that mate maybe needs to be a seperate issue I’m just on for private drivers, whatever they do they screw is all from their ivory towers

 

[bluetonium]

Just had an email yesterday off our company lease firm, am expecting my first EV in march but now delayed to April.

But in light of the uncertainty created by reeves in her budget over this 3p per mile tax, employees and represented companies are being given the option to cancel any EV car orders not yet shipped, and there will be a revision of our car list to include more petrol, diesel and hybrid cars. Not sure this is the outcome the government wanted, but clearly there has been sufficient pressure this past week to at least force our lease partners to act.

Need to work out now how this impacts me. I had it down that I could get my cost per mile to 2.9p per mile by installing a home 7kw charger and going on a specific EV tariff for overnight charging, and I think despite the extra 3p tax I'd still be better off than now. But paying more in tax than I would for 'fuel' irks me and, as I need to pay for the EV charger installation too, it extends the time needed to break even. It also means the BiK tax saving, in truth the major attraction for why so many choose EVs as company cars, is eaten away.

Frustratingly the government incentive of £3k or so off the list price of an EV doesn't go to me, I assume the lease company take this, and as I don't live in rented accommodation I don't get any help on the charger installation either. So spending a grand on a new charger, even as an investment for the future, when the government now wants another few hundred quid a year off me regardless of whether I'm driving to see a customer in Aberdeen or on holiday to Anglesey, is a big factor for consideration. Also makes Spain that bit more appealing for hols from 2028 too.

And what about the electric public transport system we've all been proudly presented with in Manchester? Does Burnham's bus ticket pricing remain or do we now pay £2 plus tax depending how far we want to go, for a single? Will we see HMRC chasing people down the A6 if you miss your stop and go into tax arrears? Will my daughter need to fill in a tax self assessment firm if the school bus turns up and is electric? Ok, I joke. Or do I? Honestly I don't know, because there's no information behind the policy at all.

From a driving on business point of view it's also a nightmare to impose this new tax too. I have no idea how many miles I'll do next year and how many will be private and how many business. The general feeling around my company is that this is so ill thought out, so undefined, so counter-productive, that they will have no choice but to soften and/or delay the implementation. The company will have to fork out thousands more in tax for it's employees to do business, and implement a more intricate system of claiming, tracking and auditing personal and business mileage, and all of that is just not attractive to us, as an employer or employee. They've already taken the EV car I ordered just last month off the car list, so the reaction is clear.

It will almost certainly also increase costs for us and our main competitors, and the early adopters to EVs are seemingly being hit hardest. Whether this is in line with cost expectations already or not I don't know, but one thing is for certain, these costs will be passed on and reflected on the prices of the products, foods and services we as consumers all buy. Be it out of my pocket to drive my car (if I don't cancel the order and revert to fossil fuels), out of my employer's pocket to pay for me to drive on business thus increasing my cost to them in a corporate environment of severe cost cutting, to pay for the goods and food delivered around the UK to me in electricity powered trucks, or to the bus company who invested in a fleet of EVs to meet emissions targets and take my daughter to and from school on the days they're not striking.

 

[Blue Since 76]

Just had an email yesterday off our company lease firm, am expecting my first EV in march but now delayed to April.

But in light of the uncertainty created by reeves in her budget over this 3p per mile tax, employees and represented companies are being given the option to cancel any EV car orders not yet shipped, and there will be a revision of our car list to include more petrol, diesel and hybrid cars. Not sure this is the outcome the government wanted, but clearly there has been sufficient pressure this past week to at least force our lease partners to act.

Need to work out now how this impacts me. I had it down that I could get my cost per mile to 2.9p per mile by installing a home 7kw charger and going on a specific EV tariff for overnight charging, and I think despite the extra 3p tax I'd still be better off than now. But paying more in tax than I would for 'fuel' irks me and, as I need to pay for the EV charger installation too, it extends the time needed to break even. It also means the BiK tax saving, in truth the major attraction for why so many choose EVs as company cars, is eaten away.

Frustratingly the government incentive of £3k or so off the list price of an EV doesn't go to me, I assume the lease company take this, and as I don't live in rented accommodation I don't get any help on the charger installation either. So spending a grand on a new charger, even as an investment for the future, when the government now wants another few hundred quid a year off me regardless of whether I'm driving to see a customer in Aberdeen or on holiday to Anglesey, is a big factor for consideration. Also makes Spain that bit more appealing for hols from 2028 too.

And what about the electric public transport system we've all been proudly presented with in Manchester? Does Burnham's bus ticket pricing remain or do we now pay £2 plus tax depending how far we want to go, for a single? Will we see HMRC chasing people down the A6 if you miss your stop and go into tax arrears? Will my daughter need to fill in a tax self assessment firm if the school bus turns up and is electric? Ok, I joke. Or do I? Honestly I don't know, because there's no information behind the policy at all.

From a driving on business point of view it's also a nightmare to impose this new tax too. I have no idea how many miles I'll do next year and how many will be private and how many business. The general feeling around my company is that this is so ill thought out, so undefined, so counter-productive, that they will have no choice but to soften and/or delay the implementation. The company will have to fork out thousands more in tax for it's employees to do business, and implement a more intricate system of claiming, tracking and auditing personal and business mileage, and all of that is just not attractive to us, as an employer or employee. They've already taken the EV car I ordered just last month off the car list, so the reaction is clear.

It will almost certainly also increase costs for us and our main competitors, and the early adopters to EVs are seemingly being hit hardest. Whether this is in line with cost expectations already or not I don't know, but one thing is for certain, these costs will be passed on and reflected on the prices of the products, foods and services we as consumers all buy. Be it out of my pocket to drive my car (if I don't cancel the order and revert to fossil fuels), out of my employer's pocket to pay for me to drive on business thus increasing my cost to them in a corporate environment of severe cost cutting, to pay for the goods and food delivered around the UK to me in electricity powered trucks, or to the bus company who invested in a fleet of EVs to meet emissions targets and take my daughter to and from school on the days they're not striking.

I assume that's why it doesn't kick in for a few years, to give them a chance to sort out the details of how it could work. Which is like pretty much every other measure announced in the budget, so hopefully the country doesn't need any of the cash at the moment. And if you think this one is bad, try and work out how the salary sacrifice reduction will work, or how they're going to value mansions...

In terms of EV calcs, you need to consider that the fuel duty reduction is supposed to be removed before the EV charge comes in making petrol and diesel more expensive, but there's always time for one or both policies to be changed.

 

[hilts]

Providing they can do a decent job I don’t care how much they are worth.

Shame they don't.

 

[Norbert D]

Shame they don't.

They do a much better job than the Tory gangsters who were and are basically a subsidiary of Putin’s Russia. “Tennis game with David Cameron? £250k please” Tory dinner £1k a pop and lovely Mrs Popov will buy the picture you are auctioning for £1m. Etc etc

 

[hilts]

They do a much better job than the Tory gangsters who were and are basically a subsidiary of Putin’s Russia. “Tennis game with David Cameron? £250k please” Tory dinner £1k a pop and lovely Mrs Popov will buy the picture you are auctioning for £1m. Etc etc

I never commented on other people so not sure of your point.

 

[bluetonium]

Imagine if we all fucked cars off then what, car taxes prop up a lot of other services and they know it, if we all jumped on buses and trams guess what fares would treble.

I Imagine it's quite easy to link your smart watch or phone to a government walking app, so then you can be taxed per step. High use areas such as town centres and in season peak district routes could even be subject to higher rates and a tourism tax for those or us who come from more than three streets away. Maybe we could even have surge pricing like Uber and ticket sites.