President Trump

gordondaviesmoustache said:
Starmer and the other European leaders need to stop this dance they’ve been performing since January as it’s plainly not working. It’s going to be painful, and it’s going to make us all poorer, but we need to start materially standing up for ourselves.

We are at war with Russia and anyone who thinks Trump is on our side in that war in completely deluded. All the evidence points the other way. I think we’ve reached the point where lines need to be drawn, including getting US troops out of Europe whilst Russia is relatively weak and not especially well placed to exploit it. I think we should boycott the World Cup too.

I don’t expect these things to happen, and I’m sure many will see the above as extreme, preposterous even, but if we carry on as we are where do people actually see this ending up? Does anyone actually think the US will come to our aid if Russia attacks NATO? America simply cannot be relied upon anymore, and anyone thinking that there will be a regime change in the States to save the day really hasn’t been paying attention. The result of all the subsequent elections will be rigged, assuming they even take place.

We need to wake up to all that, bite the bullet, and respond accordingly. It’s over.
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Whilst telling Trump, we’re keeping hold of the nukes we currently have
 
Blue Maverick said:
I think the rest of the world will be stronger for them been weaker, Europe will not forget not should they, like they are weening themselves off Russian gas and oil, doing the same with American will only weaken them as they won’t have as much influence. Trump has done untold damage to over 80 years of friendship and it will never be the same. All empires fall eventually and I think this is the start of Americas fall, we know we can’t trust China and Russia, America is in the same breath now.
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If Trump is voted out next election (if, I know) then what’s to stop the Democratic Party restoring relations agains straight away?
 
WT86 said:
I understand it’s gratifying to complain but Europe hasn't shown it’s able to make hard choices necessary to defend itself without the US. Look at the uproar in France over the "losing children" comment and national service. The fact there is a winnable war in Europe currently and Europe is letting Ukraine fight it out alone says all you need to know. Talk is cheap.
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Was talk cheap when the UK and others spilled blood in your post 9/11 wars? Europe is currently buying all the weapons to support Ukraine from America, long term we need to manufacture our own. America is no longer a trusted ally to anyone outside of Russia. Canada should also get closer to Europe, cut out the rogue nation.
 
Norbert D said:
Was talk cheap when the UK and others spilled blood in your post 9/11 wars? Europe is currently buying all the weapons to support Ukraine from America, long term we need to manufacture our own. America is no longer a trusted ally to anyone outside of Russia. Canada should also get closer to Europe, cut out the rogue nation.
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Obviously not? What is your point? There's been blood spilled on both sides of the broader alliance for centuries.

I'm not saying European leaders don't have grounds for distrusting Trump. I'm saying they're not going to do anything about it because when it comes to confronting Russia, they don't have the stomach for the fight either. Trump is a sideshow.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
If Trump is voted out next election (if, I know) then what’s to stop the Democratic Party restoring relations agains straight away?
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They can try and will do to a degree but once bitten twice shy. What’s to say we don’t go through the same shit 4 years later if another populist republicans gets in.

This has been a huge wake up call to those that had become too reliant on the US.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
If Trump is voted out next election (if, I know) then what’s to stop the Democratic Party restoring relations agains straight away?
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The Constitution currently precludes him from serving a third term but never say never with this guy. The up-coming mid-terms are where the action is, but again I have no doubt he's busy scheming in that regard, and I can see the Supreme Court getting involved.

If the Dem's do manage to take control of the House and Senate then impeachment is very much on the card for any number of offences (take your pick).
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Starmer and the other European leaders need to stop this dance they’ve been performing since January as it’s plainly not working. It’s going to be painful, and it’s going to make us all poorer, but we need to start materially standing up for ourselves.

We are at war with Russia and anyone who thinks Trump is on our side in that war in completely deluded. All the evidence points the other way. I think we’ve reached the point where lines need to be drawn, including getting US troops out of Europe whilst Russia is relatively weak and not especially well placed to exploit it. I think we should boycott the World Cup too.

I don’t expect these things to happen, and I’m sure many will see the above as extreme, preposterous even, but if we carry on as we are where do people actually see this ending up? Does anyone actually think the US will come to our aid if Russia attacks NATO? America simply cannot be relied upon anymore, and anyone thinking that there will be a regime change in the States to save the day really hasn’t been paying attention. The result of all the subsequent elections will be rigged, assuming they even take place.

We need to wake up to all that, bite the bullet, and respond accordingly. It’s over.
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Starmer needs to go all Hugh Grant on him.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
If Trump is voted out next election (if, I know) then what’s to stop the Democratic Party restoring relations agains straight away?
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They can try but long term would you trust them, what’s to stop the one after that doing the same thing, that special relationship is a lot of bollocks as well, it’s only whilst it suits them.
 
WT86 said:
Obviously not? What is your point? There's been blood spilled on both sides of the broader alliance for centuries.

I'm not saying European leaders don't have grounds for distrusting Trump. I'm saying they're not going to do anything about it because when it comes to confronting Russia, they don't have the stomach for the fight either. Trump is a sideshow.
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You do recall Britain had to fight the Nazi’s on their own for two years? The Germans, French, Scandinavian countries, Poland, UK are all up to put that pound shop dictator Putin in his place. Russia thought it could take Ukraine in days, now it’s relying on agent orange to talk Ukraine into surrendering. Fuck Trump.
 
WT86 said:
Obviously not? What is your point? There's been blood spilled on both sides of the broader alliance for centuries.

I'm not saying European leaders don't have grounds for distrusting Trump. I'm saying they're not going to do anything about it because when it comes to confronting Russia, they don't have the stomach for the fight either. Trump is a sideshow.
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History suggests that when the shit hits the fan, the UK and Europe will do what's necessary, while the yanks sit on the side lines and profit from it.
 
Norbert D said:
You do recall Britain had to fight the Nazi’s on their own for two years? The Germans, French, Scandinavian countries, Poland, UK are all up to put that pound shop dictator Putin in his place. Russia thought it could take Ukraine in days, now it’s relying on agent orange to talk Ukraine into surrendering. Fuck Trump.
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No, I don't recall Britain ever fought the Nazis on their own.

You say these countries are up to put Putin in his place, but they're not are they. European leaders aren't willing to take the risk.

With regard to people claiming we should break up NATO, it's Brexit-type thinking all over again, on both sides of the Atlantic. Everything will be great again if you just tell your allies to fuck off. Except maybe it won't.
 
flook said:
History suggests that when the shit hits the fan, the UK and Europe will do what's necessary, while the yanks sit on the side lines and profit from it.
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History suggests there were 375k American soldiers killed in Europe in the world wars.
 
WT86 said:
History suggests there were 375k American soldiers killed in Europe in the world wars.
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We shouldn’t be playing each other off in this, just an acknowledgement that certain countries came together to defeat a vile regime.

Also, an acknowledgement that Trump has walked away from former US allies and basically sidled himself up with despots.

We, as Europeans, have lots in common with the US, not forgetting where the non-indigenous US people actually came from, and many in Europe, who are not being funded and openly supported by US and Russian backers, are shocked at how easily the US people are taking this.

Very much like when the UK turned its back on the EU, the UK is seeing what it feels like to be done over.
 
Blue Maverick said:
And had they not there’s a good chance everyone not just Europeans would be speaking German, unless you are Jewish, black gay etc, a bit like Trump is trying to do now.
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History would suggest differently.
The war in the east had turned and the RAF alongside the Polish pilots, RCAF etc had turned the tables in the skies before Japan attacked Pearl Harbour.
 
WT86 said:
No, I don't recall Britain ever fought the Nazis on their own.

You say these countries are up to put Putin in his place, but they're not are they. European leaders aren't willing to take the risk.

With regard to people claiming we should break up NATO, it's Brexit-type thinking all over again, on both sides of the Atlantic. Everything will be great again if you just tell your allies to fuck off. Except maybe it won't.
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It’s agent orange who’s trying to break up NATO. Britain fought from 1939 to 1941 pretty much alone against the Nazi’s. If you don’t see that you’re probably not worth the effort.
 
Blue Maverick said:
And had they not there’s a good chance everyone not just Europeans would be speaking German, unless you are Jewish, black gay etc, a bit like Trump is trying to do now.
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Russia lost nearly 9 million soldiers fighting the Nazis in WW2. Had it not been for them, the USA's contribution late on would have made sweet FA difference.
 
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