Russian invasion of Ukraine

European leaders have reportedly agreed to fund Ukraine for the next two years with a loan of 90bn but aren't using seized Russian assets. Europe is effectively paying them.

Will this be enough to finally deliver the knockout blow they need to force Putin to the negotiating table where the terms aren't in his favour? Forget the Orange baboon, Ukraine have tactically outfought the Russkies with grit, determination and 20th century rifles, but to finish them off, they've needed more firepower.

Look how pissed off the Kremlin is, calling Europe and the UK 'warmongerers'. The toad probably never envisaged that Europe itself would foot the bill (albeit via a loan). Here's to a happier and successful 2026 for Ukraine!
 
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The Future’s Blue! said:
I see the whole narrative from Putin of who actually started the war has now been turned onto Ukraine. Ukraine started it in Crimea and again in 2022 when they attacked the East. Also Ukraine’s fault for not surrendering and keeping the war going.

And the Russian people believe this?
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The Russian people are told to believe this. Not so subtle difference.

Never underestimate the power of propaganda.
 
Blue and true said:
The Russian people are told to believe this. Not so subtle difference.

Never underestimate the power of propaganda.
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I suppose when you’re told something by a dictator, you are to believe it.

Was fairly gobsmacked at Putin’s statements, nearly started questioning my own understanding of the situation.
 
The Future’s Blue! said:
I see the whole narrative from Putin of who actually started the war has now been turned onto Ukraine. Ukraine started it in Crimea and again in 2022 when they attacked the East. Also Ukraine’s fault for not surrendering and keeping the war going.

And the Russian people believe this?
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The logic from the bloated toad is staggering; Ukraine started the war when the Ukrainians refused to allow the Russians invade Ukrainian territory.
 
Blue and true said:
The Russian people are told to believe this. Not so subtle difference.

Never underestimate the power of propaganda.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's quite that; the Russian people, or at least many of them, back to Soviet days probably understand very well when they're being lied to.

The point of the lie isn't to make people believe it; it's to show that the liar has the power to lie with impunity and others have to pretend it's true regardless.

It's to cow people into submission, not to change their minds.

Trump has identical MO for his own outrageous and obvious lies.
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I don't think it's quite that; the Russian people, or at least many of them, back to Soviet days probably understand very well when they're being lied to.

The point of the lie isn't to make people believe it; it's to show that the liar has the power to lie with impunity and others have to pretend it's true regardless.

It's to cow people into submission, not to change their minds.

Trump has identical MO for his own outrageous and obvious lies.
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Nah, you can't really uphold that idea. I'm quite surprised.

Propaganda - similar to advertising - is directly targeting your brain structure in order to change your mind and your behaviour.
It works well, proven throughout history of mankind.

Lies come true for your brain if they are repeated often enough without any alternative.

For those who still try to not obey, the system is threatening with radical consequences - cowing into submission as you say.

But the target is the brain and its structure, defo.
As the nervous system is known to be conservative, the influenced brain won't change much and the influenced adult brain and behaviour stays as it is. It's even transgenerational - influencing their kids' brain and behaviour.

(Apologies. Back to topics.)
 
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St.Pauli support said:
Nah, you can't really uphold that idea. I'm quite surprised.

Propaganda - similar to advertising - is directly targeting your brain structure in order to change your mind and your behaviour.
It works well, proven throughout history of mankind.

Lies come true for your brain if they are repeated often enough without any alternative.

For those who still try to not obey, the system is threatening with radical consequences - cowing into submission as you say.

But the target is the brain and it's structure, defo.
As the nervous system is known to be conservative, the influenced brain won't change much and the influenced adult brain and behaviour stays as it is. It's even transgenerational - influencing their kids' brain and behaviour.

(Apologies. Back to topics.)
Click to expand...

I think both can be true eg

In the populist playbook, lying itself is glorified; it is an instrument of subversion, its purpose to demonstrate that the liar will stop at nothing to ‘serve the people’.
 
Metal Biker said:
European leaders have reportedly agreed to fund Ukraine for the next two years with a loan of 90bn but aren't using seized Russian assets. Europe is effectively paying them.

Will this be enough to finally deliver the knockout blow they need to force Putin to the negotiating table where the terms aren't in his favour? Forget the Orange baboon, Ukraine have tactically outfought the Russkies with grit, determination and 20th century rifles, but to finish them off, they've needed more firepower.

Look how pissed off the Kremlin is, calling Europe and the UK 'warmongerers'. The toad probably never envisaged that Europe itself would foot the bill (albeit via a loan). Here's to a happier and successful 2026 for Ukraine!
Click to expand...
If only mate alas Ukraine lacks the man power to defeat Russia, I think best they can hope for is to bleed Russian youth and hold the line until the Russian populace say enough like the Afghans managed to do. Very difficult though in a dictatorship without risking your own life Putin’s fairly ruthless with any opposition.
 
Not all EU countries are in the €90bn deal, those run by Putin’s lackey’s namely Hungary, Slovakia and Czech R have opted out of paying a bean. Additionally (and quite alarmingly from an EU solidarity standpoint) Belgium voted against using frozen Russian assets to fund the package for fear of becoming a ‘target’ as the majority of those funds are held by a Belgian institution, and in doing so have made the German’s look like mugs.

If there was ever a time when the EU needed pull in a single direction, it’s now and they’ve practically shit the bed.
 
Damocles said:
I know, there are people who really think Ukraine are winning this war
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Nobody is "winning" sadly, and never will.


roubaixtuesday said:
Ukrainian kinetic sanctions now reaching into the Med

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One vlog is claiming that the head of GRU was on board, and that the ship is on severe fire, and suggests this may have been hit by one of their long range drones. It is also suggested that this "tanker" was more into mischief than oil supply.

I can't see how they would have been able to fly it through all that airspace without detection, and Turkey has drone patrols all along its coast ond borders.

I guess it could have been ship launched in the Med though, as could an underwatre drone (both could have been transported out on a grain ship). If that guy was on board, it's suggests good (and long term) intelligence for Ukraine that he would be onboard.
 
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