The Labour Government

Hope the next PM, if it comes to that, is more robust with Trump than Starmer, who I feel very sorry for.

He chose a particular approach with Trump, one that I probably would have followed myself in the same circumstances; I think he needed to give it a go.

But the rules of the game have changed.

That isn’t his fault, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in the nation’s best interests that he get replaced.

I expect someone more left wing will step in. Which will be no bad thing.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Hope the next PM, if it comes to that, is more robust with Trump than Starmer, who I feel very sorry for.

He chose a particular approach with Trump, one that I probably would have followed myself in the same circumstances; I think he needed to give it a go.

But the rules of the game have changed.

That isn’t his fault, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in the nation’s best interests that he get replaced.

I expect someone more left wing will step in. Which will be no bad thing.
Click to expand...
Starmer is on a hiding to nothing at the moment. We have the closest relationship with the US and so it needs managing differently to other countries. If only we were a relatively big player in a large political union rather than an outsider trying to lie on a pin head.
 
hampshireblue said:
Starmer is on a hiding to nothing at the moment. We have the closest relationship with the US and so it needs managing differently to other countries. If only we were a relatively big player in a large political union rather than an outsider trying to lie on a pin head.
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But we hold all the cards.
They need us more than we need them.
We can do a deal with South American countries and Australia and New Zealand and Vanuatu!
The USA will give us the biggest and bestest trade deal in history.

Just think, the bloke that facilitated all that bollox is now favourite to be the next PM, while we laugh at America and the leader Farage fawns over above all others.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
But we hold all the cards.
They need us more than we need them.
We can do a deal with South American countries and Australia and New Zealand and Vanuatu!
The USA will give us the biggest and bestest trade deal in history.

Just think, the bloke that facilitated all that bollox is now favourite to be the next PM, while we laugh at America and the leader Farage fawns over above all others.
Click to expand...
yep. And the 52% who believed him the first time will be the first to moan when it all goes badly again. Then it'll be someone else's fault but never the ones in the mirror.
 
I really don’t see what all the fuss is about the chagos islands.

Ps changes of water company regulation (which is surely more important to everyone’s day to day life ) which seem to be good and welcomed
 
hampshireblue said:
Starmer is on a hiding to nothing at the moment. We have the closest relationship with the US and so it needs managing differently to other countries. If only we were a relatively big player in a large political union rather than an outsider trying to lie on a pin head.
Click to expand...
You really think this plays out any different if we were in the EU? Or is it a case of needing to throw it in everywhere one can. We are in Europe, sometimes I think you guys forget that. Greenland Venezuela Ukraine it doesn’t really matter with the Bellend. We will either stand united with other countries in and out of europe/nato or not.

As we have seen before being a EU member doesn't mean any single country automatically needs to act as a group on international issues.
We have seen with these organisations built on sand like the UN that individual countries will do whats best for them. And by that I mean the politicians not the people.

There are a fair few countries in Nato that are not fully paid up members of the EU so it isnt relevant, I cant imagine every one, except obviously the yanks, will all be singing from the same songbook.

Trump will either listen to our point of view or he wont, I think we know how much the fucker listens to others:-) you play the faux best mate role, give him a state visit and he may treat you better but as soon as you disagree he will not think twice of slapping you down again(tariffs again) He is not a friend, we dont have a close relationship with him, he is devoid of such virtues as friendship and close relationships.
Bringing brexit into nearly every thread is tiresome and just derails the topic at hand.

I hope everyone in Nato stands together and in the future starts to realise we cannot rely on a superpower to do the right thing. We all knew the yanks where a bit too keen on getting their way but this has gone into something more dangerous and sinister now. It will take more than being a simple member of a club to repel it.
Let's hope its just his usual bullshit but going forward its the americans themselves that need to Lance this real ugly boil on humanity.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Hope the next PM, if it comes to that, is more robust with Trump than Starmer, who I feel very sorry for.

He chose a particular approach with Trump, one that I probably would have followed myself in the same circumstances; I think he needed to give it a go.

But the rules of the game have changed.

That isn’t his fault, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in the nation’s best interests that he get replaced.

I expect someone more left wing will step in. Which will be no bad thing.
Click to expand...
If he gets replaced , it will be like the tories all over again .
The party will be split and we have a prime minister not elected by a general election .
If they call a general election farage has a chance of strolling in with his mate trump .
 
WRicko said:
I really don’t see what all the fuss is about the chagos islands.

Ps changes of water company regulation (which is surely more important to everyone’s day to day life ) which seem to be good and welcomed
Click to expand...

Those Tory voices that are against it seem to have forgotten its their last Govts' negotiations that Labour simply concluded. The money we are spending is in part rent on the Island airbase - so we are paying for the Americans to have an airbase there. We could renege on the deal we'd save money and he'd lose his unsinkable aircraft carrier.
 
Wayneclarkemunchescarrots said:
If he gets replaced , it will be like the tories all over again .
The party will be split and we have a prime minister not elected by a general election .
If they call a general election farage has a chance of strolling in with his mate trump .
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I think the party is already split tbh, has been for years in all honesty but I agree about changing Starmer especially now. For who? Another staus quo dull suck up? Whats the point? Let them get on with fiddling a bit around the edges.
If anyone wants anything more radical you need to look elsewhere and be forever disappointed.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Hope the next PM, if it comes to that, is more robust with Trump than Starmer, who I feel very sorry for.

He chose a particular approach with Trump, one that I probably would have followed myself in the same circumstances; I think he needed to give it a go.

But the rules of the game have changed.

That isn’t his fault, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t in the nation’s best interests that he get replaced.

I expect someone more left wing will step in. Which will be no bad thing.
Click to expand...
I'm American but I'll give a small thought about this:

If you keep running from the bully.. he keeps on chasing you. But if you punch him in the noggin, that'll make him think twice about bullying you.

Take a page from Canada.. they put in a new guy that they felt could handle Trump better than Trudeau.

Who that is within the UK/ Labor.. I have no idea but it's safe to say if you don't change now.. you'll end up with a Farrage government that will appease Trump even more!

Just a thought..
 
hampshireblue said:
Starmer is on a hiding to nothing at the moment. We have the closest relationship with the US and so it needs managing differently to other countries. If only we were a relatively big player in a large political union rather than an outsider trying to lie on a pin head.
Click to expand...

As someone who hoped that we could give the shitgibbon some nice crayons and let him sit in the corner colouring-in until the bell rang, I have had some sympathy with Starmer's position. However, that isn't going to work and in light of Carney's speech I think Starmer might need to reconsider his messaging and possibly his strategy (if that's not already a WIP in the background, which I'd hope it is).

The reality is we're out of the EU for the foreseeable but instead of viewing ourselves as a hapless/friendless nation caught between a rock and a hard place, Starmer needs to lead and lean into our role as a very significant player in this nascent web/coalition of "mid-powers" that will stand up to the bigger powers. The existential threat on the doorstep has prompted Carney to take a lead that it seems possible even the inherently disjointed EU will mostly take up too, we can and should be a major player in this and I don't think we can afford as a country to hedge our bets any longer.

In signalling this Starmer will no doubt alienate some of the electorate but I don't think he's getting them back anyway. It'll likely lead to even more challenging times than we're in now but as well as being the right/only thing to do imo, there is a clear defendable political narrative in it - something which Starmer has lacked almost from the get go. The nutters who would welcome an amphibian faced Trump capo as their overlord are still a minority, a noisy one but nonetheless a minority and Starmer needs to wrestle the narrative back from them and if he shows some leadership this could be that opportunity.
 
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