Seat Counters 25/26

tolmie's hairdoo said:
And those kids who came to those Cup ties for the first time have seen City score seven, eight and ten in the last five seasons alone.

If anything, it's not the kids and their casual supporting families that aren't making the efforts.

It's still season ticket holders not turning up and stupid matchday prices.

If the Etihad was still 44k capacity, we wouldn't be talking like this. It's the expansions which has clouded what people now want to see.

Throughout all my years watching City, any crowds consistently hitting 35k were considered huge, and that goes for every club outside of United.

The biggest crowd I was ever in at Maine Road was 47,000 for the 5-1.

The fans haven't changed and neither has the desire or indifference to attend for most.

What's changed is football and society. They have constructed a narrative that every stadium needs to be bursting for the commercial optics, whether for the TV rights or selling it to various sponsors.

Social media exacerbates it because now rivals who never previously had a platform for one-upmanship, outside of their team winning trophies, can sit at home and never attend a game in person, yet somehow impact the psyche of someone who does.

Couldn't give a shit and you will also have those older City fans who love misery as company, so trying to make the issues more pronounced just because they can't be arsed to attend as regularly and while many have legitimate financial restrictions, many also piss it up the wall instead.

I'd rather a stadium was packed to the rafters 100 per cent of the time and the atmosphere to match, but it's a fantasy.

Give me five games a season where 61,000 are in and it's five games more than we have right now.

Away support make the most noise and always will, tribalism at its best.

Hypocrisy usually shows itself when the biggest games come around and the atmosphere takes care of itself.

Everything else is just contrived bollocks trying to rediscover a romanticised version that never really existed, outside of four or five games a season and the pools of piss and racism you had to avoid.
Click to expand...
Brilliant post mate
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
And those kids who came to those Cup ties for the first time have seen City score seven, eight and ten in the last five seasons alone.

If anything, it's not the kids and their casual supporting families that aren't making the efforts.

It's still season ticket holders not turning up and stupid matchday prices.

If the Etihad was still 44k capacity, we wouldn't be talking like this. It's the expansions which has clouded what people now want to see.

Throughout all my years watching City, any crowds consistently hitting 35k were considered huge, and that goes for every club outside of United.

The biggest crowd I was ever in at Maine Road was 47,000 for the 5-1.

The fans haven't changed and neither has the desire or indifference to attend for most.

What's changed is football and society. They have constructed a narrative that every stadium needs to be bursting for the commercial optics, whether for the TV rights or selling it to various sponsors.

Social media exacerbates it because now rivals who never previously had a platform for one-upmanship, outside of their team winning trophies, can sit at home and never attend a game in person, yet somehow impact the psyche of someone who does.

Couldn't give a shit and you will also have those older City fans who love misery as company, so trying to make the issues more pronounced just because they can't be arsed to attend as regularly and while many have legitimate financial restrictions, many also piss it up the wall instead.

I'd rather a stadium was packed to the rafters 100 per cent of the time and the atmosphere to match, but it's a fantasy.

Give me five games a season where 61,000 are in and it's five games more than we have right now.

Away support make the most noise and always will, tribalism at its best.

Hypocrisy usually shows itself when the biggest games come around and the atmosphere takes care of itself.

Everything else is just contrived bollocks trying to rediscover a romanticised version that never really existed, outside of four or five games a season and the pools of piss and racism you had to avoid.
Click to expand...

Top post mate.

FWIW, I was in a few 52k Derby crowds and the Everton midweek cup replay but nothing more than that.

We have loads of great fans and they include some miserable so and sos. I love our support but we were rarely the noisiest, even in the Kippax days. That said, occasionally the atmosphere was electric.

The racism, though rarer, has never completely gone away. I’m not talking about people disliking the full on tourists who irritate most of us with their video taking during games.

A mate informed me that two regular Blues were called Pakis in the South Stand at a recent game. That’s one sure way of guaranteeing extra empty seats.
 
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The club is in a difficult position. Modern football is an arms race and we are significantly behind the opposition on matchday income. All the recent, controversial decisions around the corporate seats in the North stand development, reductions in the number of season tickets, third party sellers and barriers to transferring tickets are all about maximising income for the here and now. Those responsible will have been given year on year match day revenue targets and they are looking at all angles in order to hit them. The club need to pause, take a step back and look at this for the long term. They need to get the place full and bouncing with predominantly local support. The high paying corporate customers will then follow.
 
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tolmie's hairdoo said:
And those kids who came to those Cup ties for the first time have seen City score seven, eight and ten in the last five seasons alone.

If anything, it's not the kids and their casual supporting families that aren't making the efforts.

It's still season ticket holders not turning up and stupid matchday prices.

If the Etihad was still 44k capacity, we wouldn't be talking like this. It's the expansions which has clouded what people now want to see.

Throughout all my years watching City, any crowds consistently hitting 35k were considered huge, and that goes for every club outside of United.

The biggest crowd I was ever in at Maine Road was 47,000 for the 5-1.

The fans haven't changed and neither has the desire or indifference to attend for most.

What's changed is football and society. They have constructed a narrative that every stadium needs to be bursting for the commercial optics, whether for the TV rights or selling it to various sponsors.

Social media exacerbates it because now rivals who never previously had a platform for one-upmanship, outside of their team winning trophies, can sit at home and never attend a game in person, yet somehow impact the psyche of someone who does.

Couldn't give a shit and you will also have those older City fans who love misery as company, so trying to make the issues more pronounced just because they can't be arsed to attend as regularly and while many have legitimate financial restrictions, many also piss it up the wall instead.

I'd rather a stadium was packed to the rafters 100 per cent of the time and the atmosphere to match, but it's a fantasy.

Give me five games a season where 61,000 are in and it's five games more than we have right now.

Away support make the most noise and always will, tribalism at its best.

Hypocrisy usually shows itself when the biggest games come around and the atmosphere takes care of itself.

Everything else is just contrived bollocks trying to rediscover a romanticised version that never really existed, outside of four or five games a season and the pools of piss and racism you had to avoid.
Click to expand...

More people go to football than ever before though. West Ham and Tottenham regularly get close to 60,000 when they never used to. They have London obviously and the swell of people there but West Ham get big crowds, despite being a similar sized fan base to us but still being shit, by making it affordable and accessible. I can go and watch their next home game, without a membership, for £36 in the premier league. When you factor in London salaries/prices, that’s probably £28-£30 equivalent here.

If Wolves was £30 tomorrow and was on general sale, there wouldn’t be a seat left on the planner.


You have to admit, mate, that there is an opportunity to regularly get 55,000 plus, but City would have to make changes and one of them is to reduce pricing and put more on to general sale, quicker.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
And those kids who came to those Cup ties for the first time have seen City score seven, eight and ten in the last five seasons alone.

If anything, it's not the kids and their casual supporting families that aren't making the efforts.

It's still season ticket holders not turning up and stupid matchday prices.

If the Etihad was still 44k capacity, we wouldn't be talking like this. It's the expansions which has clouded what people now want to see.

Throughout all my years watching City, any crowds consistently hitting 35k were considered huge, and that goes for every club outside of United.

The biggest crowd I was ever in at Maine Road was 47,000 for the 5-1.

The fans haven't changed and neither has the desire or indifference to attend for most.

What's changed is football and society. They have constructed a narrative that every stadium needs to be bursting for the commercial optics, whether for the TV rights or selling it to various sponsors.

Social media exacerbates it because now rivals who never previously had a platform for one-upmanship, outside of their team winning trophies, can sit at home and never attend a game in person, yet somehow impact the psyche of someone who does.

Couldn't give a shit and you will also have those older City fans who love misery as company, so trying to make the issues more pronounced just because they can't be arsed to attend as regularly and while many have legitimate financial restrictions, many also piss it up the wall instead.

I'd rather a stadium was packed to the rafters 100 per cent of the time and the atmosphere to match, but it's a fantasy.

Give me five games a season where 61,000 are in and it's five games more than we have right now.

Away support make the most noise and always will, tribalism at its best.

Hypocrisy usually shows itself when the biggest games come around and the atmosphere takes care of itself.

Everything else is just contrived bollocks trying to rediscover a romanticised version that never really existed, outside of four or five games a season and the pools of piss and racism you had to avoid.
Click to expand...
Well said. Some of our fans have always enjoyed wallowing in misery. It’s part of the famous City DNA. I have done it myself on occasions. But thankfully it is a minority of our generally excellent fanbase.
 
I would err on the side of alarm because the demand for tickets is falling, and post Pearce this is the first time we've seen this. In my opinion, we are managing to attract new fans to the club but I have the feeling that a lot of regular seasoncard holders are giving up, and this is particularly apparent in the midweek games. I base that partly on my own experience of midweek games where the regulars aren't there and the data presented last season by the club for a City Matters meeting last season that showed very high rates of non-attendance by seasoncard holders for midweek Champions League games.

Bravado, and excuses such as a weakening transport system might me well intentioned but we need the club to focus their minds on this. When the new stand is complete, they should consider the running of the ticket office and its systems. The first job would be to identify if there is a group of fans that are not attending. What we think is guesswork, the club has the data. Then they have to think how to address this. They also need to start communicating. There should be a massive sense of anticipation for the first game with the North Stand. They should have built that, instead it's all fan-led.
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
Well said. Some of our fans have always enjoyed wallowing in misery. It’s part of the famous City DNA. I have done it myself on occasions. But thankfully it is a minority of our generally excellent fanbase.
Click to expand...
It’s not wallowing in misery to point out and be concerned about long term blues have been driven away because of lack of season tickets being sold, never mind at affordable prices, it being made harder and harder to access as a non member or even transfer tickets to people at a whim, and ridiculously priced match tickets.

The long term affects are negative for the club and I don’t want that.

We have two games in the next fortnight that could have 8,000 empty seats at both. It won’t be wallowing in misery to point out this could all be avoidable.
 
Ban-jani said:
More people go to football than ever before though. West Ham and Tottenham regularly get close to 60,000 when they never used to. They have London obviously and the swell of people there but West Ham get big crowds, despite being a similar sized fan base to us but still being shit, by making it affordable and accessible. I can go and watch their next home game, without a membership, for £36 in the premier league. When you factor in London salaries/prices, that’s probably £28-£30 equivalent here.

If Wolves was £30 tomorrow and was on general sale, there wouldn’t be a seat left on the planner.


You have to admit, mate, that there is an opportunity to regularly get 55,000 plus, but City would have to make changes and one of them is to reduce pricing and put more on to general sale, quicker.
Click to expand...
Spurs have had crowds of between 47k and 52k for their CL games. Check.

West Ham have massive numbers of empty seats in their stands.

I do agree that it's not doomsday as we did sell the Exeter home game out. Ticket pricing is key. And for me a sense of belonging matters too. You get that with season tickets. We've not been selling them, or we do so begrudgingly.
 
Marvin. said:
I would err on the side of alarm because the demand for tickets is falling, and post Pearce this is the first time we've seen this. In my opinion, we are managing to attract new fans to the club but I have the feeling that a lot of regular seasoncard holders are giving up, and this is particularly apparent in the midweek games. I base that partly on my own experience of midweek games where the regulars aren't there and the data presented last season by the club for a City Matters meeting last season that showed very high rates of non-attendance by seasoncard holders for midweek Champions League games.

Bravado, and excuses such as a weakening transport system might me well intentioned but we need the club to focus their minds on this. When the new stand is complete, they should consider the running of the ticket office and its systems. The first job would be to identify if there is a group of fans that are not attending. What we think is guesswork, the club has the data. Then they have to think how to address this. They also need to start communicating. There should be a massive sense of anticipation for the first game with the North Stand. They should have built that, instead it's all fan-led.
Click to expand...
We have an ageing fanbase. Some of us are literally dying off! I didn’t miss a single home game for decades but Ill health has intervened a few times in recent years. I’m missing my first home game this season tomorrow for those reasons. Back for Gala and Spurs away hopefully.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s not wallowing in misery to point out and be concerned about long term blues have been driven away because of lack of season tickets being sold, never mind at affordable prices, it being made harder and harder to access as a non member or even transfer tickets to people at a whim, and ridiculously priced match tickets.

The long term affects are negative for the club and I don’t want that.

We have two games in the next fortnight that could have 8,000 empty seats at both. It won’t be wallowing in misery to point out this could all be avoidable.
Click to expand...
There is no problem with criticism. And I agree with most of your posts. But, come on, some people on here have been totally over the top. We have always had a section of our support which love to moan about everything. Can you remember the Main Stand moaners at Maine Road?
 
Wirral Blue8 said:
197 tickets sold since yesterday at 10am.
Tickets remaining for League Cup Semi-Final 2nd Leg v Newcastle. Less than 2 weeks to go until the game and selling a couple of hundred tickets a day. Probably looking at about 7/8000 empty seats for it - attendance of about 44/45k

Level 0: 3,790

Level 1: 3,652

Level 3: 4,355

Total: 11,797 tickets left
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132 tickets sold since yesterday at 11.30am.
Tickets remaining for League Cup Semi-Final 2nd Leg v Newcastle. Less than 2 weeks to go until the game and selling about a couple of hundred tickets a day. Likely about 9000 empty seats for it - attendance of about 43k

Level 0: 3,710

Level 1: 3,622

Level 3: 4,333

Total: 11,665 tickets left
 
bobbyowenquiff said:
We have an ageing fanbase. Some of us are literally dying off! I didn’t miss a single home game for decades but Ill health has intervened a few times in recent years. I’m missing my first home game this season tomorrow for those reasons. Back for Gala and Spurs away hopefully.
Click to expand...
In that case there is a problem that I am glad you are acknowledging. City's fanbase should not in this moment be ageing but we are targeting match-day fans. I think it is a very bad idea, and we are seeing the fruition of that now. We should have spent the last decade building our regular supporter base up. This is what happens when the club is enveloped in brand strategy. A fan-base feels solidarity, we are not a supermarket.
 
Ban-jani said:
More people go to football than ever before though. West Ham and Tottenham regularly get close to 60,000 when they never used to. They have London obviously and the swell of people there but West Ham get big crowds, despite being a similar sized fan base to us but still being shit, by making it affordable and accessible. I can go and watch their next home game, without a membership, for £36 in the premier league. When you factor in London salaries/prices, that’s probably £28-£30 equivalent here.

If Wolves was £30 tomorrow and was on general sale, there wouldn’t be a seat left on the planner.


You have to admit, mate, that there is an opportunity to regularly get 55,000 plus, but City would have to make changes and one of them is to reduce pricing and put more on to general sale, quicker.
Click to expand...
I've said it before, but there are more than enough City fans in Manchester to sell out a 62,000 seat stadium week in week out. The pricing has to be right though.
 
Marvin. said:
I would err on the side of alarm because the demand for tickets is falling, and post Pearce this is the first time we've seen this. In my opinion, we are managing to attract new fans to the club but I have the feeling that a lot of regular seasoncard holders are giving up, and this is particularly apparent in the midweek games. I base that partly on my own experience of midweek games where the regulars aren't there and the data presented last season by the club for a City Matters meeting last season that showed very high rates of non-attendance by seasoncard holders for midweek Champions League games.

Bravado, and excuses such as a weakening transport system might me well intentioned but we need the club to focus their minds on this. When the new stand is complete, they should consider the running of the ticket office and its systems. The first job would be to identify if there is a group of fans that are not attending. What we think is guesswork, the club has the data. Then they have to think how to address this. They also need to start communicating. There should be a massive sense of anticipation for the first game with the North Stand. They should have built that, instead it's all fan-led.
Click to expand...
Some of it isn't guesswork though

Football has moved from its traditional working class roots and, both factually and anecdotally, there are thousands of the original hardcore (not just at City) who can no longer afford to attend matches

The flip side is that English attendances have never been so high

The big question that nobody can answer is how much higher can attendances grow without offering discount schemes that are sometimes counter productive?

For example we now have supporters who are on the FA Cup scheme, but have no intention of attending games v Exeter or Salford when the prices are so low that they can afford to take the pinch.

Again, it's not just at City.

Tottenham are discovering the limits of enthusiasm for the new CL format which virtually guarantees qualification for the knockout stages

United keep talking about a 100,000 stadium despite recording 67,000 for their FA Cup defeat v Fulham last season, which was sandwiched between more important Europa League games.

Watch a recording of their goal v FCTwente last season and the visual empty seats didn't stop them claiming a full house

SImilar to us but not on our scale.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s not wallowing in misery to point out and be concerned about long term blues have been driven away because of lack of season tickets being sold, never mind at affordable prices, it being made harder and harder to access as a non member or even transfer tickets to people at a whim, and ridiculously priced match tickets.

The long term affects are negative for the club and I don’t want that.

We have two games in the next fortnight that could have 8,000 empty seats at both. It won’t be wallowing in misery to point out this could all be avoidable.
Click to expand...

Is that 44,000 full seats or 8,000 empty seats. Two 44k attendances wouldn’t be the end of the world in my book but it’s all about opinions.

I think fans should meet the club in the middle (like most do) because we want to see top players continuing to run out for City. The club could ease up some of the ticket transfer restrictions including letting season card holders have more than one ticket on their account. More match day members could buy memberships that would allow them to buy cheaper match day tickets.

The club could cut the cost of match day memberships to £20 for adults and a fiver for juniors. For info, as someone who runs an OSC Branch, I’ve paid for several memberships for members this season. The Club should also restore the memberships of banned fans who have been cleared of wrongdoing.

BTW, we will get 55k crowds next season with the 4k extra season cards that will be sold. Flexi tickets for juniors have been £9 this season. There are a lot of younger families who’ve been blocked from getting season cards together.

The club could put a block on further “technology upgrades” at the turnstiles that proved to be a nightmare.
 
Marvin. said:
In that case there is a problem that I am glad you are acknowledging. City's fanbase should not in this moment be ageing but we are targeting match-day fans. I think it is a very bad idea, and we are seeing the fruition of that now. We should have spent the last decade building our regular supporter base up. This is what happens when the club is enveloped in brand strategy. A fan-base feels solidarity, we are not a supermarket.
Click to expand...

True what you say Marvin. That said, we will have thousands of you Blues / families who will be able to get season cards for next season. That’s long overdue.
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
Some of it isn't guesswork though

Football has moved from its traditional working class roots and, both factually and anecdotally, there are thousands of the original hardcore (not just at City) who can no longer afford to attend matches

The flip side is that English attendances have never been so high

The big question that nobody can answer is how much higher can attendances grow without offering discount schemes that are sometimes counter productive?

For example we now have supporters who are on the FA Cup scheme, but have no intention of attending games v Exeter or Salford when the prices are so low that they can afford to take the pinch.

Again, it's not just at City.

Tottenham are discovering the limits of enthusiasm for the new CL format which virtually guarantees qualification for the knockout stages

United keep talking about a 100,000 stadium despite recording 67,000 for their FA Cup defeat v Fulham last season, which was sandwiched between more important Europa League games.

Watch a recording of their goal v FC.Twente last season and the visual empty seats didn't stop them claiming a full house
Click to expand...
Man Utd get massive media backing and can survive the bad times. We are labelled as cheats. I don't think there is any prospect of Man Utd's fanbase eroding. I am not sure I want that to be honest. I want a healthy vibrant City dominating a healthy vibrant football world.
 
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