Denton and Gorton by-election - Green Party wins

tweety said:
Its been going on forever, that's how they lived in their previous countries. It's tribal, they live as one huge 'family', I know of one where I live and they have a 'Mister Big' in charge who dictates what they can and can't do. It's the complete opposite of how Western society works.
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The Greens are a pro-LGTBQ, pro-prostitution, pro-drugs party led by a bloke who tricked women into thinking they had big boobs...

It's not exactly Sharia Law in a nutshell!
 
bluejon said:
Over the moon with this result. Have my reservations about green, and time will tell if they are competent, but it was the result i was hoping for. With the demographics is lev it would have been horrendous to have a racist little weird wank stain like goodwin in as our MP. A good day and good to show the country the north is not reform.
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It feels at least like there's a possibility that they'll try and do some good, as good people. Rather than being in it for themselves. It's got to be an improvement at least
 
roubaixtuesday said:
I think democracy volunteers are a reputable group.

Family voting is coercing family members to vote as directed. It's real, not just in ethnic minorities though, and its definitely not why Reform lost here.

democracyvolunteers.org

Democracy Volunteers Observing elections to improve democracy

We are are a volunteer election observer group based in the UK but we also work abroad. We are always looking for new observers and students for our courses!
democracyvolunteers.org democracyvolunteers.org
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tweety said:
Its been going on forever, that's how they lived in their previous countries. It's tribal, they live as one huge 'family', I know of one where I live and they have a 'Mister Big' in charge who dictates what they can and can't do. It's the complete opposite of how Western society works.
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Someone should tell this helmet that.
 
This is just like the City title win in 2012 - fantastic and yet how many didn't like it and have never liked it since! 'Twill be interesting to see if it can be buit upon. I suspect Nige will be unhappy as he thought his juggernaut would continue rolling. For those who can remember, did the Tories ever lose a by-election whilst holding a thirteen thousand majority?
 
tweety said:
Its been going on forever, that's how they lived in their previous countries. It's tribal, they live as one huge 'family', I know of one where I live and they have a 'Mister Big' in charge who dictates what they can and can't do. It's the complete opposite of how Western society works.
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can you explain why my ex-father-in law ( a huge Thatcher fan and rabid Tory ) made sure his wife and 5 children voted Tory? We were all in Middleton - I was unaware I was born abroad
 
MillionMilesAway said:
I think that quite a lot of people don't actually know what they want, or likely everything that a party stands for. The media are very loud on negative reporting and have little to say that is positive about party aims.

Labour - barely any positive media coverage recently (Starmer overseas is good, but I don't think it makes a lot of impact on voting). But in power, and there have been some good things as well as some bad things. No clear successor to Starmer.

Conservatives - still on punishment duty, had Bannon's tanks parked all over their lawn, lost some media support as e.g. the Telegraph/Express have lurched to Reform; struggling to re-define their aim

LibDems - almost zero coverage by media to the point of wilful avoidance, but also seem quiet

Reform - the populists' populist, appears to have over-exposure on media, but have they hit their voting percentage limit? The defectors aren't exactly popular, the councils aren't leading the way to (s)unlit uplands. Can others pin Trump links clearly, will he be hammered for the lunacy of his party statements (like shooting politicians, Russian links, etc). Need to put together a manifesto that stands scrutiny. Contests in Scotland will be important.

Greens - future elections will see whether they're a protest against Labour, a protest against Reform, or a flash in the pan. Need to put together a manifesto that stands scrutiny. Need to have more representation in media that isn't just Polanski.
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Fair balanced post.

The betting was 100% accurate in this election (unlike the polls). Moving forward the betting suggests that the next GE will be a hung Parliament with Reform slight favourites to win most seats from Labour, a resurgent Tory party and a competitive Green party. Adding the numbers, I make it 50/50 whether the inevitable coalition will be left or right.
 
bluethrunthru said:
who the fuck are Democracy Volunteers and what is family voting?

Googled family voting and I can find no reference to it on line until the early hours of today. It couldn't be a pre-prepared excuse for losing invented by Reform Ltd could it?
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It’s a legitimate organisation.
https://democracyvolunteers.org/

As I posted earlier, I await a full, evidenced report. Assisting an aged relative to the booth is one thing, but entering the booth and assisting them to vote is another. Quite how one could stop such interference with postal ballots is another matter.

The Electoral Commission accredits observers, so presumably other bodies will have been in attendance and should be able to confirm.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/observing-elections-and-referendums
 
Palerider said:
Populist Left first, Populist Right second. What have we become? Where are we headed?
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I think there's multiple potential forks in the road (my opinion in brackets).

1. One or both of the traditional parties responds meaningfully to the populist insurgence and regains control of their electoral position and the narrative (unlikely but of the two I suspect Labour has at least some chance if it enacts a course correction)
2. One or both of the traditional parties seeks some form of coalition with the populist insurgence (possible in the case of ConForm, at the moment seems very unlikely with Labour but maybe with a change of leadership and tone?)
3. One or both of the populist parties demonstrates itself capable of more than populism and offers something more robust that enough people go for (very unlikely in the case of Reform, the new incarnation of the Greens who knows, possible?)
4. One of the populist parties wins the day anyway and goes into government wholly unprepared for it
5. There ends up a highly tactical voting orientated election that at grassroots level has a Lab, Green, LD v Con, Reform flavour that leaves us with no overall majority and potentially a bit of a shitshow given our current approach to government isn't designed to support complex coalitions.

I suspect 5 but my main hope is that whatever electoral bargains have to be struck involves a move to PR sooner rather than later and our politics matures a bit (and does so quickly given some of the challenges we face). I am ever the optimist.
 
tweety said:
Its been going on forever, that's how they lived in their previous countries. It's tribal, they live as one huge 'family', I know of one where I live and they have a 'Mister Big' in charge who dictates what they can and can't do. It's the complete opposite of how Western society works.
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Yeah, I think I know who you mean. Some bloke called Donald Trump
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Sounds like MP’s voting for a policy they hate, because the Party leader tells them to. Think it’s called party unity and loyalty when it’s done, rather than family voting but sounds like the exact same thing…
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'Family voting' not having been used much prior to this tweet does make it look unconvincing.

I'd think that someone vaguely responsible would be able to review if it's been a concern before, or whether it's been known. What is the appropriate response for someone who for some reason can't fill in the paperwork as they want? Postal voting??
 
Semper aggressus said:
What is the Greens policy on defence? Will they keep our deterrent? Will they support Ukraine? Can they be trusted not to give away territories like Gibraltar and the Falklands who’s populations have voted to remain British?

What are their tax policies? Will they decide to take even more from higher earners?

What about their approach to welfare, will any of it be strictly means tested?

Will those of us who enjoy the likes of Shakespeare, opera, traditional British pubs and are actually proud of this country’s achievements in industry and in battles for freedom be castigated as racist?
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WTF does opera have to do with being British?
I love opera, have travelled all over the EU and NY to watch it but I’d never claim it is British!
 
tweety said:
Its been going on forever, that's how they lived in their previous countries. It's tribal, they live as one huge 'family', I know of one where I live and they have a 'Mister Big' in charge who dictates what they can and can't do. It's the complete opposite of how Western society works.
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Not to contradict you but it sounds just like the US atm... ;)
 
Palerider said:
Fair balanced post.

The betting was 100% accurate in this election (unlike the polls). Moving forward the betting suggests that the next GE will be a hung Parliament with Reform slight favourites to win most seats from Labour, a resurgent Tory party and a competitive Green party. Adding the numbers, I make it 50/50 whether the inevitable coalition will be left or right.
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Coalitions will be like City 'n the Rags sharing a ground. Too many would not be happy and even though it came to pass it wouldn't work for the benefit of the nation. It should but politicians have too big an ego to utter the phrase "After you, Claude!'
 
denislawsbackheel said:
WTF does opera have to do with being British?
I love opera, have travelled all over the EU and NY to watch it but I’d never claim it is British!
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maybe he really likes gilbert & sullivan

personally i associate opera with italy, but what do I know
 
Relieved to see Reform beaten but the Muslim community and the young air heads won't save us at the next GE. They doubled their vote - the country is in big trouble and if Angela of Adswood is Labour's choice of leader Farage will licking his evil lips.
 
Palerider said:
Fair balanced post.

The betting was 100% accurate in this election (unlike the polls). Moving forward the betting suggests that the next GE will be a hung Parliament with Reform slight favourites to win most seats from Labour, a resurgent Tory party and a competitive Green party. Adding the numbers, I make it 50/50 whether the inevitable coalition will be left or right.
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The most surprising thing was that it wasn't that close in the end.

As you say, it is likely to be close, unless there's a complete collapse somewhere. By the next election, Labour will have had some years in power, and almost no others will have a tranche of MPs with experience.
 
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