Denton and Gorton by-election - Green Party wins

Eccles Blue said:
Personally I wouldn’t know who any of my family actually vote for any more than they know for certain who I vote for. It’s a secret ballot and I like to keep it private. They can guess from things I say/do the same as I can with them but I’m in the polling booth alone and put my cross where I want to!! :-)
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They all know you’re a monster raving loony at heart.
 
hilts said:
Half the bloody cabinet have had donations from friends of Israel, the govt have been helping Israel with military assistance and the govt have arrested thousands of people for openly taking to the street to denounce genocide against Palestinians.
Labour got a kicking and they deserved it. Their stance has been cowardly and immoral. The Green Party had every right to call out Labour over Gaza.
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The government suspended military support for Israel during the war and Starmer publicly backed a Palestinian state. We’re constantly being told, quite rightly, our involvement in middle eastern wars is a disaster and we should stay out of it. I’m an advocate of freedom of speech so don’t agree with the treatment of Palestine Action but I do wonder why that conflict, over everything else, is Labour’s fault.
 
Ban-jani said:
Not really, the Greens were odds on and it was a left wing seat even when Labour were getting hammered.

I wouldn’t get carried away if I were you. It’ll mean little in the upcoming General Election.
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Your recent post count doesn’t portray your “Not really” comment.
 
Ban-jani said:
Imagine accusing me of getting all my information from right wing media, and then not seeing Labour openly criticising the same tactic, how far left is your online echo chamber to miss all that? Every party has criticised it.

As I’ve said, the Labour Party don’t want the war in Gaza to continue, I don’t know a single person who does.

This is what the former Deputy Leader of the party, and a Muslim, said today:
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Labour aren't a left wing party any more, over the past maybe 8 years the Overton window has moved so much to the right that Labour has ended up a mild-right alternative in order to attract conservative voters. Of course they'll criticise the Greens, they're desperate to stop voters moving over to them in their droves.

I wouldn't put much store in what comes from an ex-deputy of any party says, but it is slightly interesting, thanks.
 
BridgyDids said:
Your recent post count doesn’t portray your “Not really” comment.
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People write entire novels on stuff that doesn’t upset them. Interest in discussing something doesn’t necessarily = upset.

I quite like telling people what is wrong with the Green Party, they’ve got too unchecked for my liking.
 
hilts said:
Half the bloody cabinet have had donations from friends of Israel, the govt have been helping Israel with military assistance and the govt have arrested thousands of people for openly taking to the street to denounce genocide against Palestinians.
Labour got a kicking and they deserved it. Their stance has been cowardly and immoral. The Green Party had every right to call out Labour over Gaza.
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This the point isn't it - if lots of people don't like the government stance on something, then why shouldn't another party campaign on that? It'd seem mad not to, in order to give the people that choice.
 
mattcity5 said:
Labour aren't a left wing party any more, over the past maybe 8 years the Overton window has moved so much to the right that Labour has ended up a mild-right alternative in order to attract conservative voters. Of course they'll criticise the Greens, they're desperate to stop voters moving over to them in their droves.

I wouldn't put much store in what comes from an ex-deputy of any party says, but it is slightly interesting, thanks.
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It’s about perspective mate but I don’t get how anyone can say the current lot aren’t left wing. Their whole pitch is bigger state involvement, more workers’ rights, beefing up public services, and sticking it to private companies when they think they’re out of line. They bang on about wealth taxes, stronger regulation, renters’ protections, green investment funded by the state, that’s textbook centre left stuff. Even when they try to sound sensible or business friendly, the instinct is still that government should step in to fix inequality and rebalance the system. You might argue about how far left they actually are compared to the Corbyn era or bloody Polanski, but pretending they’re somehow right wing is a stretch. At their core they still believe the state’s got a big role to play in sorting out social and economic problems, and that’s pretty much the definition of modern British left wing politics. I don’t necessarily disagree with all of it either.
 
mattcity5 said:
This the point isn't it - if lots of people don't like the government stance on something, then why shouldn't another party campaign on that? It'd seem mad not to, in order to give the people that choice.
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I completely agree with this by the way, it’s just the way they went about it I find unethical and a bit sinister to be honest.
 
mattcity5 said:
This the point isn't it - if lots of people don't like the government stance on something, then why shouldn't another party campaign on that? It'd seem mad not to, in order to give the people that choice.
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Exactly plus its hardly jumping on the bandwagon from the greens, they have been beating this drum for a long time now.
 
Ban-jani said:
The government suspended military support for Israel during the war
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They didn't ....
Ban-jani said:
and Starmer publicly backed a Palestinian state.
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Not really the thread for this but feel free to explain why that means anything beyond the square root of fuck all in the relevant one.
Ban-jani said:
We’re constantly being told, quite rightly, our involvement in middle eastern wars is a disaster and we should stay out
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The point is we haven't ... we are active participants.

Ban-jani said:
I’m an advocate of freedom of speech so don’t agree with the treatment of Palestine Action but I do wonder why that conflict, over everything else, is Labour’s fault.
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So you disagree with the proscription of Palestine Action because you are a free speech advocate but appear to struggle with the concept that other people might hold that against the government that did it and have a problem with the blatant political motivations behind it?

It's probably a co-incidence but I can't get away from the irony of you going off grid 6 years ago, just after the slaying of Corbyn and then returning to the fray just in time for the next moral panic about 'left extremism' ;-)
 
Postman Pep said:
They didn't ....

Not really the thread for this but feel free to explain why that means anything beyond the square root of fuck all in the relevant one.

The point is we haven't ... we are active participants.


So you disagree with the proscription of Palestine Action because you are a free speech advocate but appear to struggle with the concept that other people might hold that against the government that did it and have a problem with the blatant political motivations behind it?

It's probably a co-incidence but I can't get away from the irony of you going off grid 6 years ago, just after the slaying of Corbyn and then returning to the fray just in time for the next moral panic about 'left extremism' ;-)
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It was a coincidence, I was banned for something unrelated lol. Don’t know when I was allowed back but I came on to read years later about whether we were getting Guehi or not and accidentally logged back in.

I’ll keep my response to Greens and their campaign, to keep it on topic as MES requested anyway… the Greens can campaign for whatever policy they want (as we’ve seen with some of the loopy shit they’ve come out with), what I think is very poor is how they brought Gaza in as a point scoring position against a Labour Government that isn’t to blame, we’re not an active participant and yes, they did:

Gov.Uk
The government has taken the decision that the UK will suspend arms export licences to Israel for use in military operations in Gaza, following a review of Israel's compliance with international humanitarian law.
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Trevor Morley's Tache said:
I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that Farrage and his merry band of cunts are nothing but a bunch of racist grifters
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Once the dust has settled and everyone has claimed their opposition are doomed the reality is we need another couple of examples in different areas as this by election was somewhat unique.

However the facts are these. In a long standing Labour stronghold with a new make up of a large Muslim population and a smaller white working class one then -

The Tories vote was spectacularly shit
The Lib Dems was spectacularly shit
Labours vote share was decimated
Reform actually did well and made big gains from previous vote share
The Green party did brilliantly well as the only viable left wing party and anti Reform.

The two main parties got absolutely battered. Only one has an obvious route out of their mire.
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s about perspective mate but I don’t get how anyone can say the current lot aren’t left wing. Their whole pitch is bigger state involvement, more workers’ rights, beefing up public services, and sticking it to private companies when they think they’re out of line. They bang on about wealth taxes, stronger regulation, renters’ protections, green investment funded by the state, that’s textbook centre left stuff. Even when they try to sound sensible or business friendly, the instinct is still that government should step in to fix inequality and rebalance the system. You might argue about how far left they actually are compared to the Corbyn era or bloody Polanski, but pretending they’re somehow right wing is a stretch. At their core they still believe the state’s got a big role to play in sorting out social and economic problems, and that’s pretty much the definition of modern British left wing politics. I don’t necessarily disagree with all of it either.
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' Sticking it to companies when they think they're out of line'.' The instinct is still the government should step in to fix inequality'. Let people judge you by these 2 statements
 
Earlyriser said:
' Sticking it to companies when they think they're out of line'.' The instinct is still the government should step in to fix inequality'. Let people judge you by these 2 statements
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It’s not court mate, we’re on a football forum. Anyway, here you go, I don’t agree with all of these but they are examples of those things I’ve said:
  • VAT on Private School Fees
  • Windfall Tax on Energy Companies
  • Strengthening Workers’ Rights (Employment Law Reform)
  • Rail Renationalisation
  • Planning Reform to Override Local Opposition
  • Crackdown on Water Company Bonuses & Pollution
  • Higher Minimum Wage Commitments
  • Ending Non-Dom Tax Status
 
Ban-jani said:
It’s not court mate, we’re on a football forum. Anyway, here you go, I don’t agree with all of these but they are examples of those things I’ve said:
  • VAT on Private School Fees
  • Windfall Tax on Energy Companies
  • Strengthening Workers’ Rights (Employment Law Reform)
  • Rail Renationalisation
  • Planning Reform to Override Local Opposition
  • Crackdown on Water Company Bonuses & Pollution
  • Higher Minimum Wage Commitments
  • Ending Non-Dom Tax Status
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In you case it's the court of public opinion. As you rightly state it is a football forum so try posting something about football.
 
hilts said:
Once the dust has settled and everyone has claimed their opposition are doomed the reality is we need another couple of examples in different areas as this by election was somewhat unique.

However the facts are these. In a long standing Labour stronghold with a new make up of a large Muslim population and a smaller white working class one then -

The Tories vote was spectacularly shit
The Lib Dems was spectacularly shit
Labours vote share was decimated
Reform actually did well and made big gains from previous vote share
The Green party did brilliantly well as the only viable left wing party and anti Reform.

The two main parties got absolutely battered. Only one has an obvious route out of their mire.
Click to expand...

Yep. The main winners of it are the Lib Dem’s and the greens tbh, everyone else will be feeling very worried.
 
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