US & Israel attack Iran

SWP's back said:
Colin, you’re not fucking Israeli, let alone a member of the Israeli government. So shut the fuck up and stop trying conflate Israel = Jew.

I’m not down any rabbit hole and I defended Israel on here for about a dozen years, especially so after the October attack but their reprisals on Gaza would make the SS say “calm down lads”.

I used to have you down as intelligent as well, but it seems you class any attack on Israel as an attack on your personally because you’re Jewish, whether by race, religion or however. There are many Jews that are far more vocal than I in their criticisms of Netanyahu and his government’s actions in the last few years. Maybe they’re antisemites as well?
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And I've been critical of Netanyahu and Israeli policy as well, many times. I have no issue with anyone doing that.

But when I see stuff like "Israel controls the US", I get nervous because I think that crosses the line. It starts to inch towards the "Jews/NWO/WEF control the banks/media/world" narrative.

The USA clearly wanted to hit Iran and has been planning it for months. They've been moving weapons into the area for weeks. They didn't just decide to go to war a weeks or so ago because Netanyahu told them to. Rubio, like most politicians, is being disingenuous, and in doing so, is creating the narrative that Israel forced this on them.

You're too intelligent to believe that everything that a US or most other politician in office says is 100% true. Yet you choose to believe this, despite the clear evidence of longer-term planning for this conflict by the USA political & military class. We know enough about them and their history to know they were likely gagging for this.
 
Gorton_Tubster said:
It's all sounding very much like the world has to pay the price of this war so Israelis can be safer.
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An extension of your point is that everyone has to 'suffer' due to the religious zealots that live in Israel and drive much of its policies. These are the people whose religious convictions allow them not to serve in the military yet through their aggressive settlement actions stir up division. They are quite happy for their fellow citizens to be killed. It's like Trump. Quite happy for US service to die to protect himself.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
But when I see stuff like "Israel controls the US", I get nervous because I think that crosses the line.
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They do through AIPAC, which should 100% be labelled as a foreign interest group and that’s not including Israeli surrogates such as Larry Ellison - who incidentally just bought US TikTok.

Even you must admit that Israel has far more say and leverage in the US politics than it’s size and population would suggest to be normal.

Prestwich_Blue said:
The USA clearly wanted to hit Iran and has been planning it for months. They've been moving weapons into the area for weeks. They didn't just decide to go to war a weeks or so ago because Netanyahu told them to. Rubio, like most politicians, is being disingenuous, and in doing so, is creating the narrative that Israel forced this on them.
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Switch USA out with Israel and the first sentence still reads as true.

Prestwich_Blue said:
You're too intelligent to believe that everything that a US or most other politician in office says is 100% true. Yet you choose to believe this, despite the clear evidence of longer-term planning for this conflict by the USA political & military class. We know enough about them and their history to know they were likely gagging for this.
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And you’re too smart to believe Netanyahu and his “Iran is two months away from nuclear weapons” which he’s been saying on tv for twenty years.

He’s a war criminal who has to have an enemy to stay in power as, like Trump, he knows he’s off to jail as soon as he’s out of power.

But these are things we can disagree on, we don’t have to agree on everything but stop labelling anyone that’s disgusted with Israel’s actions in the last two years as being antisemites.
 
BlueRockape said:
I am not a political man nor racist and am sorry to say this PB but you are not as intelligent as I presumed.
If you can not see what is being done in the name of reasonable Jewish people I give up the hatred coming from Israel is off the scale.
To say I have waited forty years to kill Iranian people shows such hatred for Muslims we can now see why the slaughter in Gaza was so vast it wasn't about reprisals it was about race
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That's a very stupid post but I know which side you're on. I'm wasting my time therefore but I'll point out some stats. The Holocaust exterminated about a third of the global Jewish population. I think we can agree that was clearly about race, therefore genocidal.

Let's say 70,000 were killed in Gaza. About 20-25k of those were direct or indirect combatants and about another 15k would have died anyway, from disease or other natural causes, according to the normal death rate over the period since October 2023.

That leaves about 30-35k civilian deaths due to Israeli action, which is maybe 1.5% of the Gaza population. There are another 3m Palestinians living in the West Bank. While all those deaths are regrettable (and were unnecessary) If this was truly about race, and an intent to exterminate Gazans, do you not think that figure would have been much, much higher?
 
Metal Biker said:
I stated nothing of the sort.

I stated I'm glad he's dead. Nothing more.

If this thread is just going to devolve into another outrage echo chamber there's no point anyone putting their views across is it.

"BE AS OUTRAGED AS ME ABOUT THE SAME THINGS I AM OUTRAGED ON OR I'LL CAST SHAME ON THEE!"
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To be fair you did criticise people for not being as outraged in other threads as they are in this one.
 
Any ex navy on here understand why its taken so long to send a type 45 to Cyprus? Seems a bit strange the greeks and french were sending ships quicker than we are.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
That's a very stupid post but I know which side you're on. I'm wasting my time therefore but I'll point out some stats. The Holocaust exterminated about a third of the global Jewish population. I think we can agree that was clearly about race, therefore genocidal.

Let's say 70,000 were killed in Gaza. About 20-25k of those were direct or indirect combatants and about another 15k would have died anyway, from disease or other natural causes, according to the normal death rate over the period since October 2023.

That leaves about 30-35k civilian deaths due to Israeli action, which is maybe 1.5% of the Gaza population. There are another 3m Palestinians living in the West Bank. While all those deaths are regrettable (and were unnecessary) If this was truly about race, and an intent to exterminate Gazans, do you not think that figure would have been much, much higher?
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You cannot say 'I'll point out some stats' and then in the next paragraph start with 'Let's say. Not compatible with a factual argument
 
SWP's back said:
They do through AIPAC, which should 100% be labelled as a foreign interest group and that’s not including Israeli surrogates such as Larry Ellison - who incidentally just bought US TikTok.

Even you must admit that Israel has far more say and leverage in the US politics than it’s size and population would suggest to be normal.



Switch USA out with Israel and the first sentence still reads as true.



And you’re too smart to believe Netanyahu and his “Iran is two months away from nuclear weapons” which he’s been saying on tv for twenty years.

He’s a war criminal who has to have an enemy to stay in power as, like Trump, he knows he’s off to jail as soon as he’s out of power.

But these are things we can disagree on, we don’t have to agree on everything but stop labelling anyone that’s disgusted with Israel’s actions in the last two years as being antisemites.
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Also the very same Larry Ellison who has recently bought CBS and litterly banned any criticism of Trump.

Again the same Larry Ellison who looks near certain to purchase CNN too.

And yes the very same Larry Ellison who donates Tens of millions to the Idf and Israel.

This **** is going to control so much of what the Americans hear.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
That's a very stupid post but I know which side you're on. I'm wasting my time therefore but I'll point out some stats. The Holocaust exterminated about a third of the global Jewish population. I think we can agree that was clearly about race, therefore genocidal.

Let's say 70,000 were killed in Gaza. About 20-25k of those were direct or indirect combatants and about another 15k would have died anyway, from disease or other natural causes, according to the normal death rate over the period since October 2023.

That leaves about 30-35k civilian deaths due to Israeli action, which is maybe 1.5% of the Gaza population. There are another 3m Palestinians living in the West Bank. While all those deaths are regrettable (and were unnecessary) If this was truly about race, and an intent to exterminate Gazans, do you not think that figure would have been much, much higher?
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OK
And waiting forty years to kill Iranians is not racist.?
Please don't accuse me of having a side I find the whole thing a toatal loss of innocent lives as should you .
But you would rather support your own murdering regime
 
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moomba said:
To be fair you did criticise people for not being as outraged in other threads as they are in this one.
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Never used the term outraged. I mentioned that there was a thread about the uprisings and nobody really seemed to give a toss about the sufferings. You didn't even post in that thread.
 
ell said:
Any ex navy on here understand why its taken so long to send a type 45 to Cyprus? Seems a bit strange the greeks and french were sending ships quicker than we are.
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The last I read they were all stuck in maintenance or refit in Portsmouth, except HMS Duncan which is only now heading east.

They could have provided air defence to Cyprus but instead the Greek Navy is doing it, pretty damning indecision on the part of the government.
 
The blue phantom said:
Also the very same Larry Ellison who has recently bought CBS and litterly banned any criticism of Trump.

Again the same Larry Ellison who looks near certain to purchase CNN too.

And yes the very same Larry Ellison who donates Tens of millions to the Idf and Israel.

This **** is going to control so much of what the Americans hear.
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And that’s even without talking about what Oracle does (both overtly and covertly).
 
Metal Biker said:
Never used the term outraged. I mentioned that there was a thread about the uprisings and nobody really seemed to give a toss about the sufferings. You didn't even post in that thread.
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As I didnt post in the thread you dont have a clue whether I gave a toss or not. And seem to be repeated your made up stories that no one did.
 
Scottyboi said:
Was just reading that the believe in a 7 year suffering for humanity and that true believers in Christ will be raptured. And then Jesus will come down and destroy Israels enemies.
Fucking nut jobs sound every bit as dangerous as ISIS but with the strongest army in the world.
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In God We Trust.

And my God's bigger than your God.
 
moomba said:
As I didnt post in the thread you dont have a clue whether I gave a toss or not. And seem to be repeated your made up stories that no one did.
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I am not interested in going over the same discussion again and again and again!
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
That's a very stupid post but I know which side you're on. I'm wasting my time therefore but I'll point out some stats. The Holocaust exterminated about a third of the global Jewish population. I think we can agree that was clearly about race, therefore genocidal.

Let's say 70,000 were killed in Gaza. About 20-25k of those were direct or indirect combatants and about another 15k would have died anyway, from disease or other natural causes, according to the normal death rate over the period since October 2023.

That leaves about 30-35k civilian deaths due to Israeli action, which is maybe 1.5% of the Gaza population. There are another 3m Palestinians living in the West Bank. While all those deaths are regrettable (and were unnecessary) If this was truly about race, and an intent to exterminate Gazans, do you not think that figure would have been much, much higher?
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Fucking hell!
That reads as "30-35,000 civilian deaths isn't that bad"
And as for the 15,000 would have died anyway. Why would they have died?
Those throw away comments are absolutely outrageous
I'm fucking stunned

I'm going to hate myself for typing this
It's like a member of the SS in Nuremberg saying "yes, we exterminated xxxxx of Jews, but 35% would have starved anyway"
 
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