President Trump

[Ban-jani]

I don't know if Americans underestimate the ill-feeling. It's understandable to have that reaction to being regularly insulted by crude, stupid foreign leaders.

I'm curious what you think major European militaries like Spain, Germany and Italy have put on the line for the UK that would balance out what America has contributed historically, and make them more trustworthy over a ~100-year horizon.

Let’s not forget that his actions have killed many children in Tehran, he’s caused a global economic crisis that will undoubtedly take lives and he’s also recently threatened to invade the sovereign territory of another NATO member. The insults and comments are one thing, taking shots at the Royal Navy and our Prime Minister we can live with, but he also recently commented that our troops stayed away from the front lines in Afghanistan, I personally know lads who went over there as I’m the right age. That is a comment we cannot live with. People forget just how deplorable his behaviour has been.

You’ve missed out the French there, they may have been annihilated in WW2 but they were at least there on the first day of both world wars with us. The French were with us, rightly or wrongly but still there at least, at Suez, when someone else wasn’t. When a fascist junta from Argentina invaded our sovereign territory, the US didn’t come to our aid and in fact tried to talk us out of defending it.

Look, I’m not going to dismiss the US’s history in supporting Europe over the last century but the UK has answered America’s call too. It wasn’t London that was attacked in 2001, it was New York, and NATO went into Afghanistan with the US. British lads died for an attack on your nation, because we saw it as an attack on ourselves.

When you see uneducated Americans (not you I’m talking about here by the way), talking about how they “saved Europe’s ass’s” in the last century, they often don’t realise and/or forget that the US turned up in the last year of WW1, turned up after Britain had already successfully defended itself in 1940 (thanks for the materials though) and that Britain came to the aid of the US most recently.

My view is your country has become one we can no longer rely on. It isn’t Europe looking to kick the US out of NATO, it isn’t Europe that’s starting illegal wars that is shutting key shipping lanes that the US relies on, then is telling the US to sort it out whilst insulting them. It isn’t Europe threatening to annex Alaska. It isn’t Europe calling US troops cowards when they were anything but.

We need to look after ourselves purely because your government are behaving deplorably. No credit in the bank for what the US did in Europe in 1944 is going to change the situation of what we need to do now.

 

[TinFoilHat]

 

[WT86]

Let’s not forget that his actions have killed many children in Tehran, he’s caused a global economic crisis that will undoubtedly take lives and he’s also recently threatened to invade the sovereign territory of another NATO member. The insults and comments are one thing, taking shots at the Royal Navy and our Prime Minister we can live with, but he also recently commented that our troops stayed away from the front lines in Afghanistan, I personally know lads who went over there as I’m the right age. That is a comment we cannot live with. People forget just how deplorable his behaviour has been.

You’ve missed out the French there, they may have been annihilated in WW2 but they were at least there on the first day of both world wars with us. The French were with us, rightly or wrongly but still there at least, at Suez, when someone else wasn’t. When a fascist junta from Argentina invaded our sovereign territory, the US didn’t come to our aid and in fact tried to talk us out of defending it.

Look, I’m not going to dismiss the US’s history in supporting Europe over the last century but the UK has answered America’s call too. It wasn’t London that was attacked in 2001, it was New York, and NATO went into Afghanistan with the US. British lads died for an attack on your nation, because we saw it as an attack on ourselves.

When you see uneducated Americans (not you I’m talking about here by the way), talking about how they “saved Europe’s ass’s” in the last century, they often don’t realise and/or forget that the US turned up in the last year of WW1, turned up after Britain had already successfully defended itself in 1940 (thanks for the materials though) and that Britain came to the aid of the US most recently.

My view is your country has become one we can no longer rely on. It isn’t Europe looking to kick the US out of NATO, it isn’t Europe that’s starting illegal wars that is shutting key shipping lanes that the US relies on, then is telling the US to sort it out whilst insulting them. It isn’t Europe threatening to annex Alaska. It isn’t Europe calling US troops cowards when they were anything but.

We need to look after ourselves purely because your government are behaving deplorably. No credit in the bank for what the US did in Europe in 1944 is going to change the situation of what we need to do now.

A lot of fair points and as I said, I don't blame allies for losing trust in the US. That's a rational reaction and I think most reasonable Americans would say they've lost trust in their own government, including in whether they would defend our traditional allies if it came to that.

That being said, this alliance didn't start yesterday and I'm not just talking about the world wars (and remember the US and UK were not allied at the beginning of the wars), but the decades of close coordination thereafter, when a lot of what is now NATO were fascist or allied against the UK. I also see a lot of talk from the big European countries about mutual defense, not a lot of action or obvious willingness to sacrifice. Among the big powers it's the US and UK that have done the heavy lifting for NATO and it wasn't that long ago certain countries were holding the UK over a barrel on Brexit.

 

[Ban-jani]

A lot of fair points and as I said, I don't blame allies for losing trust in the US. That's a rational reaction and I think most reasonable Americans would say they've lost trust in their own government, including in whether they would defend our traditional allies if it came to that.

That being said, this alliance didn't start yesterday and I'm not just talking about the world wars (and remember the US and UK were not allied at the beginning of the wars), but the decades of close coordination thereafter, when a lot of what is now NATO were fascist or allied against the UK. I also see a lot of talk from the big European countries about mutual defense, not a lot of action or obvious willingness to sacrifice. Among the big powers it's the US and UK that have done the heavy lifting for NATO and it wasn't that long ago certain countries were holding the UK over a barrel on Brexit.

My replies aren’t an attack on reasonable Americans, I know many of you are utterly embarrassed and probably mortified at what your government is doing. Just on your first paragraph, it was only a matter of weeks ago we weren’t sure if he was going to invade one of our allies, never mind defend them.

Your second paragraph I totally get, and you are right, in the main for decades the US has propped up the West, certainly in terms of protection, with the UK probably next on that list. I also agree with what you’ve said about lots of talk about Europe upping its defence to protect itself but all of our countries are falling short. A century ago France had the best land army in the world, Britain had the best navy, now we’re all a joke in that department. But my point is this is a massive kick up the arse for us to get our act together. The EU needs to be an equal to the US and China in my opinion.

I can understand from the perspective of a reasonable American that you’re thinking optimistically, where you think “let’s just get rid of these MAGA lunatics and get things back to normal” and hopefully our allies will look on us favourably again but from our perspective, too much has happened to return to that reliance.

We can’t guarantee your next President will be a more reasonable Democrat, or whether we’ll get Trump 2.0, there will at least be suspicion for a significant period of time.

 

[WT86]

My replies aren’t an attack on reasonable Americans, I know many of you are utterly embarrassed and probably mortified at what your government is doing. Just on your first paragraph, it was only a matter of weeks ago we weren’t sure if he was going to invade one of our allies, never mind defend them.

Your second paragraph I totally get, and you are right, in the main for decades the US has propped up the West, certainly in terms of protection, with the UK probably next on that list. I also agree with what you’ve said about lots of talk about Europe upping its defence to protect itself but all of our countries are falling short. A century ago France had the best land army in the world, Britain had the best navy, now we’re all a joke in that department. But my point is this is a massive kick up the arse for us to get our act together. The EU needs to be an equal to the US and China in my opinion.

I can understand from the perspective of a reasonable American that you’re thinking optimistically, where you think “let’s just get rid of these MAGA lunatics and get things back to normal” and hopefully our allies will look on us favourably again but from our perspective, too much has happened to return to that reliance.

We can’t guarantee your next President will be a more reasonable Democrat, or whether we’ll get Trump 2.0, there will at least be suspicion for a significant period of time.

No disagreement there. I actually think America would benefit from a more powerful Europe, I'm just skeptical that the continental countries will ever get there.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

The current administration are cunts.

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

View attachment 187947

Notice how, when times get tough, Trump fires all the women first.

At least people dont seem to be falling out of windows.. yet.

Trump Tells Karoline Leavitt ‘You’re Doing a Terrible Job’ While Complaining About Bad Publicity | Video

Donald Trump called out Karoline Leavitt while complaining about bad publicity to the press corps, suggesting the White House press secretary is "doing a terrible job."

news.yahoo.com

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

My replies aren’t an attack on reasonable Americans, I know many of you are utterly embarrassed and probably mortified at what your government is doing. Just on your first paragraph, it was only a matter of weeks ago we weren’t sure if he was going to invade one of our allies, never mind defend them.

Your second paragraph I totally get, and you are right, in the main for decades the US has propped up the West, certainly in terms of protection, with the UK probably next on that list. I also agree with what you’ve said about lots of talk about Europe upping its defence to protect itself but all of our countries are falling short. A century ago France had the best land army in the world, Britain had the best navy, now we’re all a joke in that department. But my point is this is a massive kick up the arse for us to get our act together. The EU needs to be an equal to the US and China in my opinion.

I can understand from the perspective of a reasonable American that you’re thinking optimistically, where you think “let’s just get rid of these MAGA lunatics and get things back to normal” and hopefully our allies will look on us favourably again but from our perspective, too much has happened to return to that reliance.

We can’t guarantee your next President will be a more reasonable Democrat, or whether we’ll get Trump 2.0, there will at least be suspicion for a significant period of time.

Haha embarassed?? no!

I told you.. the dumbasses outnumber the smart people. I learned that lesson when we were dumb enough to vote for Bush a 2nd time.

Minor miracle we elected Obama a 2nd time -- fully expected him to lose. I guess people gave him a 2nd term just because he managed to kill Bin Laden.. something Bush couldn't.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Haha embarassed?? no!

I told you.. the dumbasses outnumber the smart people. I learned that lesson when we were dumb enough to vote for Bush a 2nd time.

Minor miracle we elected Obama a 2nd time -- fully expected him to lose. I guess people gave him a 2nd term just because he managed to kill Bin Laden.. something Bush couldn't.

If the average IQ is 100, then there has to be a person with a lower than 100 IQ for every person with a higher than 100 IQ.

 

[Blue_Lightsaber]

If the average IQ is 100, then there has to be a person with a lower than 100 IQ for every person with a higher than 100 IQ.

Average IQ in the US is 70.

A person with 90 IQ's who haven't lost their hair are usually fortune 500 CEO's those IQ 70 people look upto.

And they can't seem to understand how someone else can be smarter and be preferable to get jobs ahead of them.

 

[Groke]

If the average IQ is 100, then there has to be a person with a lower than 100 IQ for every person with a higher than 100 IQ.

That would be the median not the average. Agree with sentiment though

 

[flook]

No disagreement there. I actually think America would benefit from a more powerful Europe, I'm just skeptical that the continental countries will ever get there.

What isn't being mentioned in this interesting discussion is that whilst there is no argument that America has done the heavy lifting in NATO for many years, it hasn't been entirely altruistic. The numerous US airbases in particular has been a significant benefit to them in that should a conflict have broken out with the Soviet Union, any non-nuclear confrontation would have (again) been fought on European soil not American. The American defence of Europe in such a scenario would have reaped significant benefit to themselves.

Whilst the "Commie threat" of the mid to late decades of the 20th century may have abated, this scenario still stands. Maintaining their significant strike capabilities sat on Russia's doorstep, the likelihood of war in the USA is remote. For this reason alone I believe Shitgibbons threat to withdraw from NATO is just more postureing.

 

[SilverFox2]

No disagreement there. I actually think America would benefit from a more powerful Europe, I'm just skeptical that the continental countries will ever get there.

Perhaps we will eventually learn to live together perhaps as well as USA has done and is doing now.

I live in Spain and our politicians are fully aware of what fascism is like with Gen Franco to reference so our leader is well versed in recognising extremism in whatever form it takes.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

My replies aren’t an attack on reasonable Americans, I know many of you are utterly embarrassed and probably mortified at what your government is doing. Just on your first paragraph, it was only a matter of weeks ago we weren’t sure if he was going to invade one of our allies, never mind defend them.

Your second paragraph I totally get, and you are right, in the main for decades the US has propped up the West, certainly in terms of protection, with the UK probably next on that list. I also agree with what you’ve said about lots of talk about Europe upping its defence to protect itself but all of our countries are falling short. A century ago France had the best land army in the world, Britain had the best navy, now we’re all a joke in that department. But my point is this is a massive kick up the arse for us to get our act together. The EU needs to be an equal to the US and China in my opinion.

I can understand from the perspective of a reasonable American that you’re thinking optimistically, where you think “let’s just get rid of these MAGA lunatics and get things back to normal” and hopefully our allies will look on us favourably again but from our perspective, too much has happened to return to that reliance.

We can’t guarantee your next President will be a more reasonable Democrat, or whether we’ll get Trump 2.0, there will at least be suspicion for a significant period of time.

It doesn’t matter to me whether your argument holds water or not. When you say I (or we) can’t trust America anymore, who the hell could blame you?

 

[Ban-jani]

It doesn’t matter to me whether your argument holds water or not. When you say I (or we) can’t trust America anymore, who the hell could blame you?

I don’t feel good about saying it or that we’re in this position. It’s a bad time for the Western World.

 

[give it to gordon]

It makes me sick that America voted for and believe the shit this orange **** says and does.
America has inflicted pain across the world. From killing school kids to financial pain.
America voted in a pedophile, a rapist, a racist etc.
I really dont understand why some countries special forces have taken him out. American are a danger to the world.


Ive even given my levi jeans to a charity shop

 

[Big Joe Corrigan]

Ive even given my levi jeans to a charity shop

That’ll show ‘em.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

If the average IQ is 100, then there has to be a person with a lower than 100 IQ for every person with a higher than 100 IQ.

That’s not necessarily correct.

 

[threespires]

Interesting philosophical point. Surely it’s still a form of decision making, albeit incoherent?

Trump would probably be a good subject to understand where the line is between what can reasonably be called decision making compared to simply following impulsive urges. I think it would help enormously if someone could take him to a lab and chop him up to aid our knowledge in this area.

 

[Gabriel]

Ive even given my levi jeans to a charity shop

Me, too. Barred from the laundromat...