President Trump

Ban-jani said:
Wasn’t it Churchill who said the greatest argument against democracy was a conversation with the average voter?

The problem is, social media has actually pushed people back into tribes with voting, where they must all think the same way and anyone who disagrees with any of it is some sort of <insert offensive word>.

It’s been manifested most with the MAGA cult but it happens across the spectrum. There’s a lack of critical thinkers generally, because people get spoon fed their algorithms, and if they weren’t particularly bright to start off with, or low IQ as you’ve pointed out, they’re done for.
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Yep - social media groups (including Bluemoon political forum) become echo chambers for the same opinion.
The reality in the real world is vastly different.
 
BlueAnorak said:
I see European right wingers are dropping Trump like a hot potato.
The whole lot are distancing themselves from TANGO man.
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Putin was the best salesman for NATO.

Trump is the best salesman for an independent EU.

And the UK has to decide if it wants to be America's bitch (really Israel's bitch) or EU's bitch
 
Earlyriser said:
Apart from GB News
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The right wing media generally has been wishy washy neutral by what I’ve seen, which is very disappointing. They’ve used Trump soundbites to have a go at the current government at times and whilst I’ve seen criticisms of Trump too, they’ve not given an outright opinion like they normally would on other topics.

The Telegraph have probably been most critical and, interestingly, have an article today on how many of Europe’s Right have cut ties with Trump and distanced themselves.
 
Ban-jani said:
The right wing media generally has been wishy washy neutral by what I’ve seen, which is very disappointing. They’ve used Trump soundbites to have a go at the current government at times and whilst I’ve seen criticisms of Trump too, they’ve not given an outright opinion like they normally would on other topics.

The Telegraph have probably been most critical and, interestingly, have an article today on how many of Europe’s Right have cut ties with Trump and distanced themselves.
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By not being critical of his claims they are not being wishy washy in my opinion.
 
flook said:
With regards Afghanistan, the debate before article 5 was invoked was, I believe, more centred around whether an attack by a terrorist organisation constituted an "armed attack" in the legal sense. It takes a broad interpretation of UN Law to determine that it does, with this particular scenario relying on the fact that the Afghani government at the time, the Taliban, gave Al Qaeda and Bin Laden safe haven. Should the NATO members not have wanted to aid America in their war on terror, this interpretation grey area would have provided an easy out.
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There was a legal argument, but also a practical argument about the advantages and disadvantages of committing forces to Afghanistan. One of the reasons less-willing NATO countries got behind the invasion was to stop future attacks on European soil by destroying al-Qaeda.

There's nothing wrong with thinking that way and every country does, but it's not pure altruism. Nor should it be, it's wrong to commit your citizens' lives without considering the advantages for your country.
 
I can't help thinking of the 1979 Iranian hostage crisis. Carter negotiated the release of US diplomats but the Iranians didn't release them until Carter had lost the 1980 election, after failed rescue attempts.
 
Blue_Lightsaber said:
Putin was the best salesman for NATO.

Trump is the best salesman for an independent EU.

And the UK has to decide if it wants to be America's bitch (really Israel's bitch) or EU's bitch
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The UK decided a while back, and well before this colossus fuck up by Trump.

‘Euro-Atlantic? NATO, but not just NATO?’
 
flook said:
What isn't being mentioned in this interesting discussion is that whilst there is no argument that America has done the heavy lifting in NATO for many years, it hasn't been entirely altruistic. The numerous US airbases in particular has been a significant benefit to them in that should a conflict have broken out with the Soviet Union, any non-nuclear confrontation would have (again) been fought on European soil not American. The American defence of Europe in such a scenario would have reaped significant benefit to themselves.

Whilst the "Commie threat" of the mid to late decades of the 20th century may have abated, this scenario still stands. Maintaining their significant strike capabilities sat on Russia's doorstep, the likelihood of war in the USA is remote. For this reason alone I believe Shitgibbons threat to withdraw from NATO is just more postureing.
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Shitgibbon doesn't give a fuck. He's a Russian asset. He wants the US out of NATO come hell or high water.

The question is; Will Congress/amyone stop him?

Although there's an easy way around it for him...

Attack a NATO member.
 
Ban-jani said:
I am definitely not confusing the majority of the American public with this, I am just about bright enough to understand that within any country, there are significant portions of the population who disagree with one another but I think you are maybe underestimating the ill feeling towards the US over this, I know that is maybe hard to hear as an American.

It’s that bad that people are genuinely gobsmacked. Half of our country spent years campaigning to remain in the EU, your President has done a better job showing us why we should be in it within the last couple of months than the Remain campaign could have ever done. I did vote remain but had some Euro scepticism and felt we should have gone ahead and followed through with Brexit once it was voted for. I am now in favour of the whole hog, back into Europe two footed, EU army, closer federalism making it a super state. That’s another significant change for me.

I can only truly speak for me, I’ve gone from seeing America very positively through most of my life to that turning on its head. It’s not even the bad decision to attack Iran, it’s the absolute contempt your government has shown its allies and the rest of the world in the process.

For your sake, and the sake of sound-minded Americans, I hope you get rid of him and his MAGA cult, but things can’t go back to being the same now. From a British perspective, we need to turn back to our allies in Europe and we cannot trust your government again.
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I think, much like the transition from Bush II to Obama, actions will speak for themselves.

Let’s see who gets elected in 28 and what they say beginning on 1/20/29.

Believe it or not, you have made the point yourself when you talk of being cozier to Europe, a large part of which wanted to kill Britons not too long ago.

It is not “America” but Trump and his ever smaller cult of Christian nationalists that we BOTH despise. I can only hope the electorate restores sanity and restraint to the White House and Congress.
 
1.618034 said:
Shitgibbon doesn't give a fuck. He's a Russian asset. He wants the US out of NATO come hell or high water.

The question is; Will Congress/amyone stop him?

Although there's an easy way around it for him...

Attack a NATO member.
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The easiest position is to stay in NATO, but do nothing if a NATO country is attacked.

There's no conflict with congress and supreme court rulings with that decision, and as he's said he won't help Europe, it gives him a stress free solution for what he wants.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a better post of describing what a MAGA voter is than by this MAGA voter himself:

1775261258084.png

He's right, he DOES have TDS.

Truth Denial Syndrome.

And to think he gets paid to post this shit.
 
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