The Labour Government

stonerblue said:
A post of 2 halves.
I've been bahging on about childcare costs since my grandson was born 13 years ago. The 'trap' you outline is the same for everybody. The single parent on benefits is the one most 'stuck' in it (unless they have fit grandparents) with no way out unless they somehow get employment that pays a grand a week.
If childcare was a state run, and free for all, people could escape the trap and find full time employment.
Most caught in the trap are not, as you describe them, underclass. They just have no way out.
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The lady I know on £4600 a month gets majority of childcare costs covered - like 85% I believe. She has to pay upfront and gets it back so like you say it’s a trap - you could be forgiven for thinking it’s by design!! You are spot on right the costs are eye watering and the idea that the state could provide to working parents is fairly sensible.

It’s small wonder people don’t work when the dice are loaded against them.
 
One of the outlaws decided to have a heart attack a couple of years ago. It laid him up a few months whilst awaiting a procedure. Luckily for him he got away with having a stent fitted. Unluckily, he lost his job. In this time he only received statutory sick pay. He eventually found another job. Before he could get back on his feet, he managed to slip and break his ankle, no pun intended. I'm not sure if he received any sick pay, but all the while, he was getting deeper in debt. He has now returned to work. This has taken its toll on his mental health. So much so he has had to use a debt management agency.
All on top of a long term health condition which I've been told, he has tumours on his spine that periodically burst and leave him in agony. So, things are not so rosy in the benefit garden. Apparently he's tried every avenue but can't claim a penny.
 
metalblue said:
Yes
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In that case I am more sympathetic. I have no idea how the benefits system works in terms of payment levels and on the surface I would agree it seems high, but without knowing the person, their circumstances or the degree to which her children are autistic etc, I’m not really in a position to judge. The fact that she works also skews my perception in her favour.

To be honest, I don’t stress over people getting benefits as I assume they are necessary and it’s none of my business anyway. Perhaps it’s also because I am attracted to the concept of everyone receiving a ‘universal basic income’ and I see benefits and State pensions within that framework.

I’m a hippie at heart :)
 
remember arthur mann said:
One of the outlaws decided to have a heart attack a couple of years ago. It laid him up a few months whilst awaiting a procedure. Luckily for him he got away with having a stent fitted. Unluckily, he lost his job. In this time he only received statutory sick pay. He eventually found another job. Before he could get back on his feet, he managed to slip and break his ankle, no pun intended. I'm not sure if he received any sick pay, but all the while, he was getting deeper in debt. He has now returned to work. This has taken its toll on his mental health. So much so he has had to use a debt management agency.
All on top of a long term health condition which I've been told, he has tumours on his spine that periodically burst and leave him in agony. So, things are not so rosy in the benefit garden. Apparently he's tried every avenue but can't claim a penny.
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And that is the problem. Those who desperately need and deserve help can find themselves frustrated at every turn yet others can have money thrown at them. Little rhyme or reason to why the system is not equitable to those in need. It is broken, from the state admitting minimum wage is not enough by giving in work benefits to a good number of people left to fend for themselves and everything in between.

This has been a problem long in the making and needs a root and branch rethink - cross party to remove the political cost of revisiting some policies such as the triple lock. I think the Tories have offered this in some guise or other but chances of any government agreeing to have the opposition help write policy is pretty remote no matter how sensible.
 
hilts said:
I was finished when you typed Nato followed by collective good, thats proper funny.
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I am sure Sweden and Finland were chuckling to themselves as they rushed to join NATO recently. It’s interesting how countries react when they become aware of an existential external threat as opposed to having the privilege to mock the idea.
 
BobKowalski said:
I am sure Sweden and Finland were chuckling to themselves as they rushed to join NATO recently. It’s interesting how countries react when they become aware of an existential external threat as opposed to having the privilege to mock the idea.
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Maybe they were seeking to be besties and protected by Bulgaria or Hungary. Or aybe they were convinced by the peacekeeping and human rights by Russia China and the US in the other great institution the United Nations.

Fwiends
 
metalblue said:
And that is the problem. Those who desperately need and deserve help can find themselves frustrated at every turn yet others can have money thrown at them. Little rhyme or reason to why the system is not equitable to those in need. It is broken, from the state admitting minimum wage is not enough by giving in work benefits to a good number of people left to fend for themselves and everything in between.

This has been a problem long in the making and needs a root and branch rethink - cross party to remove the political cost of revisiting some policies such as the triple lock. I think the Tories have offered this in some guise or other but chances of any government agreeing to have the opposition help write policy is pretty remote no matter how sensible.
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Does not the involvement of children remove some barriers?

The disconnect that always strikes me as the everyone wants rigorous barriers for welfare claimants, yet no one wants those barriers to apply to them personally and are affronted when they do.

Edit: To be fair, I would be affronted as well!
 
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west didsblue said:
Both of whom were streets ahead of any of the following five Tory PMs.
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It’s all a matter of opinion. Personally I’ll never forgive Blair’s Iraq intervention or his PFI debt ladened legacy. Brown, well what can you say, decent fellow but not a statesman. My faith in politicians is shot. I don’t think they are up to the job on these fast changing times. They’ve most likely been shaded from real life by some kind of privilege, be it money or nepotism. I know people will say this is a negative perspective but it’s my experience.
 
BobKowalski said:
In that case I am more sympathetic. I have no idea how the benefits system works in terms of payment levels and on the surface I would agree it seems high, but without knowing the person, their circumstances or the degree to which her children are autistic etc, I’m not really in a position to judge. The fact that she works also skews my perception in her favour.

To be honest, I don’t stress over people getting benefits as I assume they are necessary and it’s none of my business anyway. Perhaps it’s also because I am attracted to the concept of everyone receiving a ‘universal basic income’ and I see benefits and State pensions within that framework.

I’m a hippie at heart :)
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I don’t disagree mate. She isn’t claiming anything she isn’t fully entitled to and the fact she works is a credit to her when she’d be just as well off if she didn’t.


Like you I favour a universal basic income. The purpose of the ADHD payments (whatever the official term is) is that it is deemed one of the parents would have to give up work hours to support their child when not in school - ergo you can’t work so much so here is some money to compensate for loss of earnings. Now take a parent who cannot work due to health reasons. Exactly the same situation, can’t work through no fault of their own. Yet the support they get from the state is entirely different. There is no equity in that system.
 
hilts said:
Maybe they were seeking to be besties and protected by Bulgaria or Hungary. Or aybe they were convinced by the peacekeeping and human rights by Russia China and the US in the other great institution the United Nations.

Fwiends
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Perhaps you should pose the question to the Swedes and the Fins and tell them how deluded they were. You could cc in the Ukrainians and let them know they are wasting their time.
 
BobKowalski said:
Does not the involvement of children remove some barriers?

The disconnect that always strikes me as the everyone wants rigorous barriers for welfare claimants, yet no one wants those barriers to apply to them personally and are affronted when they do.
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I think it largely depends on the nature of the claim - see my last reply to you.

In an attempt to weed out fraud we have created a monster of a system that doesn’t always support those who deserve it.
 
Jimmieblue said:
It’s all a matter of opinion. Personally I’ll never forgive Blair’s Iraq intervention or his PFI debt ladened legacy. Brown, well what can you say, decent fellow but not a statesman. My faith in politicians is shot. I don’t think they are up to the job on these fast changing times. They’ve most likely been shaded from real life by some kind of privilege, be it money or nepotism. I know people will say this is a negative perspective but it’s my experience.
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In retrospect the UK’s involvement in the 2003 Iraq war was a huge mistake but at least there was a legal basis for deploying our armed forces with UN resolutions and parliamentary agreement, which was voted through with the help of many Tories, and as for PFIS, the first ones were introduced by Major’s Tory government 5 years prior to Blair. In retrospect they were a failure and all post 1992 governments were complicit.
 
stonerblue said:
If childcare was a state run, and free for all, people could escape the trap and find full time employment.
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I've just done a quick fag packet calculation in my head that I think suggests what we'll end up spending on HS2 would have provided free full nursery provision and wraparound care for every child in the country for about the next 40-50 years.

Tbh that's not really cheered me up.
 
west didsblue said:
In retrospect the UK’s involvement in the 2003 Iraq war was a huge mistake but at least there was a legal basis for deploying our armed forces with UN resolutions and parliamentary agreement, which was voted through with the help of many Tories, and as for PFIS, the first ones were introduced by Major’s Tory government 5 years prior to Blair. In retrospect they were a failure and all post 1992 governments were complicit.
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While the public keep blaming one side and then the other … nothing sensible gets done. We need visionaries, not politicians.
 
Blue Maverick said:

My mates missus says this is what happens all the time, government say they are going to prosecute these people, I’d say it’s time to fuck off these loopholes, sorry but it’s bullshit.
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Does the BBC have a special investigations department just for asylum fraud? They seem to come up with stuff regularly - just before elections.
 
threespires said:
I've just done a quick fag packet calculation in my head that I think suggests what we'll end up spending on HS2 would have provided free full nursery provision and wraparound care for every child in the country for about the next 40-50 years.

Tbh that's not really cheered me up.
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HS2 was a disgraceful decision. The cost v the benefit should have been a huge red flag.

I still feel for those that were booted out of their homes for it
 
Vic said:
Does the BBC have a special investigations department just for asylum fraud? They seem to come up with stuff regularly - just before elections.
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They have moved noticeably to the right.

News on the economy growing more than forecasted placed at the bottom of the website.

Rejoining Erasmus relegated to the bottom too.
 
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