Pensions and Pensioners

Palerider said:
Why is it not possible to build up a national pot (similar to personal pension pots)?
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Interestingly Germany (Europes Gold Standard) seems to do exactly what we do.

Germany’s state pension (Gesetzliche Rentenversicherung – GRV) operates on a "pay-as-you-go" system (solidarity system), where current employee and employer contributions fund the pensions of current retirees, rather than being invested in a personal fund. It is mandatory for most workers, with contributions totaling 18.6% of gross income (divided equally) up to specific income ceiling
 
Earlyriser said:
The majority of current pensioners have paid significant amounts in both taxes and NI. Compare what they draw in State Pension to the unmarried single mothers who have never worked, contributed nothing. I lose all compassion when I see them pushing their child around whilst vaping and looking at their high-end phones.
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…and the nails! It’s the fucking nails that does my head in!!
 
SilverFox2 said:
Also as previously posted the pensioners collectively pay massive amounts of income tax.
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But that's due to your pension contributions not being taxed, which allows you to invest more money that can compound quicker does it not?

I pay into a SIPP and receive a rebate on my contributions, I don't expect when I'm claiming that pension to have it tax free if my state pension is covering the majority of my personal allowance.
 
Palerider said:
Surely the problem is that the state pension 'pot' is actually non existent? i.e it does not exist. For some reason, the state pension is paid for by today's tax payers (including many pensioners themselves). It's like we have decided to self insure instead of paying say for Pet Insurance but decided to not actually save any money. Crazy.
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It can only be paid for by today's tax payer because when it came in how would you have given it to people?

You dont pay for your education and health until you're say 18 through tax, does the govt ask for that money back? Are you in deficit with them? No the adult population chip in for you. Why am i paying for other peoples kids education?. Its impossible to do it any other way. We contribute to a welfare state.
The simple fact is we don't create enough wealth to do everything we want to do or we dont spend it wisely.
Strange how other countries pay more pension.
Our politicians do okay with their pension paid for by us though, they even have cheaper ale, but yeah let's turn on each other because Old John can afford a pint or a holiday and isnt sitting at home with a jumper and coat on.
 
Scottyboi said:
But that's due to your pension contributions not being taxed, which allows you to invest more money that can compound quicker does it not?

I pay into a SIPP and receive a rebate on my contributions, I don't expect when I'm claiming that pension to have it tax free if my state pension is covering the majority of my personal allowance.
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You overlook the fact that once you start drawing it you start paying tax on it
 
The British disease is “something for nothing, and I want my share,” coupled with “it’s not fair that that guy worked hard to make so much money, so we need to take it away and give it to us.” Throw in a bit of “no, you can’t build that there” and you have a perfect recipe for a lack of affordability and class warfare, with a healthy dose of victim mentality.

A brilliant foundation for a successful society!

Answers?

Required apprenticeships for non-university students. Tax breaks for those companies who take them on.
2 years of National service at 18, deferrable until 22 if still in the education pipeline.
No income tax on the first £21,000, but 33% if it has to be put directly into an ISA-type retirement account.
Greater threshold for disability, including mental health.
No benefits to non-citizens, with a 5 yr delay for naturalized citizens.
1% down payment for first home home owners and no income tax on the first £10,400 of annual home mortgage payments.
Fixed rate mortgages required for minimum of first 5 years of mortgages, extendable if mortgage rates rise above current payment rate, with govt-mandated maximum mortgage rates for first-time buyer.

Britain has to relieve the working poor of the over-inflated basic costs of living, which helps relieve the state of a growing benefit culture, while concurrently making it almost impossible to actually “live” on the benefits bandwagon for the able-bodied.

The country needs a sea change in mentality, but the victimhood and whataboutism is epidemic and may be too ingrained in consecutive generations engaged in class warfare. It’s the basic reason Reform, more correctly called The Grievance Culture Party, are growing so rapidly…but the reckoning will end in tears.

I’ve told the tale a thousand times…

A Brit walks down the street, comes up on a nice house with a garden and a nice motor in the driveway and waves a fist, saying, “That fucker! Look at that house and car! How many people must he have fucked over to get that, the bastard?!”

The American walks down the same street, comes upon the same scene, and says, “See that? I’m going to have that when I grow up!”

While it may be said that in 2026, the American Dream is harder to achieve, but still very achievable, there is absolutely no question that the British Disease is growing and spreading, like a malignancy that is going to kill the host.

Good luck solving the pension problem…it’s the least of your worries!
 
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hilts said:
It can only be paid for by today's tax payer because when it came in how would you have given it to people?

You dont pay for your education and health until you're say 18 through tax, does the govt ask for that money back? Are you in deficit with them? No the adult population chip in for you. Why am i paying for other peoples kids education?. Its impossible to do it any other way. We contribute to a welfare state.
The simple fact is we don't create enough wealth to do everything we want to do or we dont spend it wisely.
Strange how other countries pay more pension.
Our politicians do okay with their pension paid for by us though, they even have cheaper ale, but yeah let's turn on each other because Old John can afford a pint or a holiday and isnt sitting at home with a jumper and coat on.
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You didn't pay for my kids education I fukin did
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
We already have the lowest state pension in the Western world .... surely to god you dont want it to get any lower?
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This is so true, people complain about Triple Lock & its cost if there was a decent pension in the first place there would be no need for Triple locks.
I don’t here many complaints about public employees gold plated final salary pensions, surely they are not sustainable.
 
Scottyboi said:
How have I overlooked it, that's my whole point I expect to pay tax on it if I've already gone over my personal allowance. Why should it be tax free?
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Well give that your Personal Allowance has been frozen since 2021 and will continue until 2031 we are being royally shafted
 
Palerider said:
Why is it not possible to build up a national pot (similar to personal pension pots)?
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Because when the state pension was brought in from that day on where was the money coming from to pay the person who was retiring next week, next year, in 10 years, 20 years........
What happens to people who have stayed home to look after children, where does their pension come from. What happens with a financial crash or other unseen circumstance. Is the national pot held by an insurance company or the govt.
Do we also save in case we are unemployed, or ill, what if you have to care for someone and can't afford to work.
The govt brought in a scheme to get more people to put into a private pension, its voluntary though. If we means test the state pension what do you think happens to those on meagre salaries. Why would they save if the govt takes some of the state pension off them.
You probably need well over £200,000 just to get 12k a year how many can afford to save that and why would they if their state pension then gets reduced.
Tax wealth, dont make people poorer because its self defeating. Pensioners pay tax and spend money, its good for the economy. If they are minted just increase income tax and council tax on houses.
Rich is rich shouldn't matter if you are a pensioner or not.
 
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Blue Maverick said:
Well they have to live off what they do save, we are already creating a society of what’s the point I’ll just rinse the system, you have 52 years to save, maybe there will be benefits at that age to help but you can’t say you’ve havent had fair warning.
Or how about we give every newborn £5k, this is invested from day 1 until the age of 70, they get that investment tax free plus their own pension.
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We have pages of people claiming the young can't afford to save for deposits how they gonna save a pension pot? Also for a lot of reasons a lot of people will not work anywhere near 52 years. We aint letting people starve so they will get it free or subsidised so we are back to square one.
In a country with a welfare state not everyone pays or receives the same amounts for the same contributions.
Its not a perfect system because there isn't one. I'm all for Reform of the tax system but means testing or scrapping the state pension won't see the light of day.
 
Scottyboi said:
But that's due to your pension contributions not being taxed, which allows you to invest more money that can compound quicker does it not?

I pay into a SIPP and receive a rebate on my contributions, I don't expect when I'm claiming that pension to have it tax free if my state pension is covering the majority of my personal allowance.
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If you look at state pension only I agree but private pensions are fully taxed having used all their allowances on a state pension.
Effectively a lot of pensioners contributed to personal pensions that in my day resulted just in annuities nowadays draw downs are available. The income tax generated here has little to do with state pension but contributes massively to it's funding like a working person before pension.
Sorry I did not make it clear.
Edit
www.financialreporter.co.uk

One million pensioners now paying tax at 40% or above

These retirees face a 'triple whammy' due to the knock-on impact of tax rates on savings and capital gains.
www.financialreporter.co.uk www.financialreporter.co.uk
 
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BlueNomad said:
The British disease is “something for nothing, and I want my share,” coupled with “it’s not fair that that guy worked hard to make so much money, so we need to take it away and give it to us.” Throw in a bit of “no, you can’t build that there” and you have a perfect recipe for a lack of affordability and class warfare, with a healthy dose of victim mentality.

A brilliant foundation for a successful society!

Answers?

Required apprenticeships for non-university students. Tax breaks for those companies who take them on.
2 years of National service at 18, deferrable until 22 if still in the education pipeline.
No income tax on the first £21,000, but 33% if it has to be put directly into an ISA-type retirement account.
Greater threshold for disability, including mental health.
No benefits to non-citizens, with a 5 yr delay for naturalized citizens.
1% down payment for first home home owners and no income tax on the first £10,400 of annual home mortgage payments.
Fixed rate mortgages required for minimum of first 5 years of mortgages, extendable if mortgage rates rise above current payment rate, with govt-mandated maximum mortgage rates for first-time buyer.

Britain has to relieve the working poor of the over-inflated basic costs of living, which helps relieve the state of a growing benefit culture, while concurrently making it almost impossible to actually “live” on the benefits bandwagon for the able-bodied.

The country needs a sea change in mentality, but the victimhood and whataboutism is epidemic and may be too ingrained in consecutive generations engaged in class warfare. It’s the basic reason Reform, more correctly called The Grievance Culture Party, are growing so rapidly…but the reckoning will end in tears.

I’ve told the tale a thousand times…

A Brit walks down the street, comes up on a nice house with a garden and a nice motor in the driveway and waves a fist, saying, “That fucker! Look at that house and car! How many people must he have fucked over to get that, the bastard?!”

The American walks down the same street, comes upon the same scene, and says, “See that? I’m going to have that when I grow up!”

While it may be said that in 2026, the American Dream is harder to achieve, but still very achievable, there is absolutely no question that the British Disease is growing and spreading, like a malignancy that is going to kill the host.

Good luck solving the pension problem…it’s the least of your worries!
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Nice try but it fell apart at the american dream part, may as well have quoted Norman Tebbit.
 
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