The Labour Government

[Heartofoakes64]

Gosh, you are depressing. Making sows' ears out of silk purses.

Haha I thought that’s what Labour are doing to the country.

 

[hampshireblue]

Gordon Brown’s 1997 Budget is widely considered a major catalyst in the decline of private sector final salary (Defined Benefit) pensions, though he is not solely responsible. [1, 2, 3]
The critical factors surrounding his role and the scheme's collapse include:

• The 1997 Dividend Tax Raid: In his first budget as Chancellor, Brown abolished the Advanced Corporation Tax (ACT) credit, stripping UK pension funds of their long-standing tax break on dividend income. This removed an estimated £5 billion per year from these funds, forcing employers to make up the massive shortfall.
• Ignoring Official Warnings: Freedom of Information releases later revealed that Treasury civil servants and the Government Actuary's Department had explicitly warned Brown that removing the tax break would destabilize the lucrative "gold-plated" schemes and hasten their demise.
• Other Contributing Factors: The end of final salary schemes wasn't Brown's doing alone. The system was severely hit by increasing life expectancy, strict new accounting rules (which made volatile market deficits harder to mask), and tumbling bond yields.
• Corporate Shifts: Faced with ballooning deficits, most private sector employers gradually closed these expensive arrangements, shifting the risk onto workers via
• QED

Thanks. So not just what Brown did as you originally stated. Were you wrong or mistaken? By the way there's nothing weak with admitting either.

The Decline of Defined Benefit Schemes

 

[Vic]

Thanks. So not just what Brown did as you originally stated. Were you wrong or mistaken? By the way there's nothing weak with admitting either.

The Decline of Defined Benefit Schemes

After so many posts blaming Brown I doubt he'll give up this cause so easily.

 

[hampshireblue]

After so many posts blaming Brown I doubt he'll give up this cause so easily.

I know but all one can do is point out the discrepancies. Without that, many of his other views are based on inaccurate information.

 

[metalblue]

View attachment 192957


Separately, the FTSE is up 26% since the election as well…

You mean the FTSE 100 that has no bearing on UK performance which is impacted by government policy? The FTSE 250 is more impacted by UK performance thus more related to government policy, that’s up about 10% since election, all of the rise really being in the last 2 months and is somewhat aligned with better UK numbers and a move away from markets reacting to every Trump social media post.

There is no doubt we are seeing some +ve UK numbers - I’m less certain why that is - out on the street a lot of folk I know are being made redundant or know someone who is.

 

[Heartofoakes64]

Thanks. So not just what Brown did as you originally stated. Were you wrong or mistaken? By the way there's nothing weak with admitting either.

The Decline of Defined Benefit Schemes

So Brown just accelerated the decline caused by another useless politician, seems about right

 

[Heartofoakes64]

Gosh, you are depressing. Making sows' ears out of silk purses.

Enlighten me about the silk purse bit ;)

 

[hampshireblue]

So Brown just accelerated the decline caused by another useless politician, seems about right

Agreed. But he was far from the only reason which you wrongly claimed. And if you really were a trustee of a DB scheme you would have known that.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

You mean the FTSE 100 that has no bearing on UK performance which is impacted by government policy? The FTSE 250 is more impacted by UK performance thus more related to government policy, that’s up about 10% since election, all of the rise really being in the last 2 months and is somewhat aligned with better UK numbers and a move away from markets reacting to every Trump social media post.

There is no doubt we are seeing some +ve UK numbers - I’m less certain why that is - out on the street a lot of folk I know are being made redundant or know someone who is.

I appreciate all that but, after a 14 year shit show, the way the RW media talk about this government you’d imagine there was absolutely nothing positive e going on, at all.
Austerity was ‘because of the financial crisis caused by the Labour Government’ and would take years to fix, apparently, meanwhile this government should have sorted the mess left by those 14 years, in five minutes…

 

[Heartofoakes64]

Agreed. But he was far from the only reason which you wrongly claimed. And if you really were a trustee of a DB scheme you would have known that.

Oh dear you are now questioning my career, you really are something else. All we knew was where the scheme was going years after what was literally a defining intervention by Browns tax raid.
This is done to death, Brown never affected DB schemes it was all Lamentable Lamont & Nigella’s dads fault. End of.

 

[Heartofoakes64]

I know but all one can do is point out the discrepancies. Without that, many of his other views are based on inaccurate information.

Hahaha a fucking double act now, you guys are missing out, there is potential for a comedy duo here, the best bit is you wouldn’t have to act, just be yourselves everybody would be pissing themselves laughing, hilarious, Canon & Ball eat your hearts out

 

[hampshireblue]

Oh dear you are now questioning my career, you really are something else. All we knew was where the scheme was going years after what was literally a defining intervention by Browns tax raid.
This is done to death, Brown never affected DB schemes it was all Lamentable Lamont & Nigella’s dads fault. End of.

In no way did I question your career. I merely pointed out that as a trustee you would have known about ALL of the circumstances leading to the reduction in the number of DB schemes, but for whatever reason you chose to blame it all on Brown. Not my fault if you got picked up on it.

 

[hampshireblue]

Hahaha a fucking double act now, you guys are missing out, there is potential for a comedy duo here, the best bit is you wouldn’t have to act, just be yourselves everybody would be pissing themselves laughing, hilarious, Canon & Ball eat your hearts out

Maybe your attitude annoyed a few on here. Yamas.

 

[Heartofoakes64]

Maybe your attitude annoyed a few on here. Yamas.

Yes I probably have, there is a reason for that too. When you are entrenched in any ideology, your mind gets that narrow it only allows what you agree with into it for processing. It would be easier for a blind man to thread a needle than for some on here as you put it to understand another view of issues.The very fact I have been called a “denier” because i am not convinced that humans are causing the planets climate to change. It changed before humans existed. Anyway it is an example of not allowing another opinion but for those that pray at the alter of climate ideology. I do not subscribe to any ideology, this allows me to process various ideas & not just reject them out of hand. However, I do have a weakness, I detest politicians of all the different segments of our system. I remember Billy Connolly saying “ the very fact someone wants to be a politician should prevent them from being one” he was a comedian too
That is my position. Go easy on the Ouzo.
PS
Do you understand syntax? I very much doubt it, along with your misunderstanding of pension schemes, I do not think you know anything about pension schemes that you haven’t read in the Guardian. You know, I actually feel sorry for guys like you

 

[hampshireblue]

Yes I probably have, there is a reason for that too. When you are entrenched in any ideology, your mind gets that narrow it only allows what you agree with into it for processing. It would be easier for a blind man to thread a needle than for some on here as you put it to understand another view of issues.The very fact I have been called a “denier” because i am not convinced that humans are causing the planets climate to change. It changed before humans existed. Anyway it is an example of not allowing another opinion but for those that pray at the alter of climate ideology. I do not subscribe to any ideology, this allows me to process various ideas & not just reject them out of hand. However, I do have a weakness, I detest politicians of all the different segments of our system. I remember Billy Connolly saying “ the very fact someone wants to be a politician should prevent them from being one” he was a comedian too
That is my position. Go easy on the Ouzo.
PS
Do you understand syntax? I very much doubt it, along with your misunderstanding of pension schemes, I do not think you know anything about pension schemes that you haven’t read in the Guardian. You know, I actually feel sorry for guys like you

Not a Guardian reader and rarely have been having voted for all of the major parties in my time.

I do know about syntax and mine rarely involves insults and swear words-unlike your own.

I am impressed however how you steer a conversation about pensions to your views on the climate.

Don't feel sorry-the pool and beach call out.

 

[west didsblue]

Yes I probably have, there is a reason for that too. When you are entrenched in any ideology, your mind gets that narrow it only allows what you agree with into it for processing. It would be easier for a blind man to thread a needle than for some on here as you put it to understand another view of issues.The very fact I have been called a “denier” because i am not convinced that humans are causing the planets climate to change. It changed before humans existed. Anyway it is an example of not allowing another opinion but for those that pray at the alter of climate ideology. I do not subscribe to any ideology, this allows me to process various ideas & not just reject them out of hand. However, I do have a weakness, I detest politicians of all the different segments of our system. I remember Billy Connolly saying “ the very fact someone wants to be a politician should prevent them from being one” he was a comedian too
That is my position. Go easy on the Ouzo.
PS
Do you understand syntax? I very much doubt it, along with your misunderstanding of pension schemes, I do not think you know anything about pension schemes that you haven’t read in the Guardian. You know, I actually feel sorry for guys like you

I get the impression that you understand very little about real world issues like climate change and pension schemes. In spite of you hating all politicians your views look very much like they’re informed by Reform or MAGA talking points. You know the saying if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck there’s a pretty good chance it’s a duck. That’s where you seem to be with far right politics.

 

[Dazzle84]

You sound like a fucking moron. I will repeat I am not a fan of any politician. They are all fucking useless.
I feel sorry for indoctrinated ( notice I didn’t say brainwashed because you have to have brain) knuckle dragging dopes like you, having to follow what you hear on MSM, never mind things can only get better. Millionaires like Milliband will make you colder & poorer ;)

You're very angry about things aren't you?

 

[jockblue]

In no way did I question your career. I merely pointed out that as a trustee you would have known about ALL of the circumstances leading to the reduction in the number of DB schemes, but for whatever reason you chose to blame it all on Brown. Not my fault if you got picked up on it.

Not read much of this thread to understand who said what to who, but I was a trustee of a DB scheme. Yes, the removal of ACT affected the scheme I was a trustee of fairly sharply, but the main issue for all schemes was the bloody scientists and their ability to make us all live longer. We all had regular updates from actuaries who gave us lectures on mortality. There was gentle amusement (pension scheme trustee meetings didn't go past gentle amusement) that for three years running, our expected mortality rose by 1 year. We therefore believed ourselves to be immortal.

But paying out pensions for an additional year when most of them were desinged to pay 10 or 15 years at most was the critical factor. Accounting rules for liabilities, and the ACT withdrawl didn't help, but the additional liabilty was the...ahem...killer.

 

[hampshireblue]

Not read much of this thread to understand who said what to who, but I was a trustee of a DB scheme. Yes, the removal of ACT affected the scheme I was a trustee of fairly sharply, but the main issue for all schemes was the bloody scientists and their ability to make us all live longer. We all had regular updates from actuaries who gave us lectures on mortality. There was gentle amusement (pension scheme trustee meetings didn't go past gentle amusement) that for three years running, our expected mortality rose by 1 year. We therefore believed ourselves to be immortal.

But paying out pensions for an additional year when most of them were desinged to pay 10 or 15 years at most was the critical factor. Accounting rules for liabilities, and the ACT withdrawl didn't help, but the additional liabilty was the...ahem...killer.

Thanks for the reply. We'll probably be accused by @Heartofoakes64 of ganging up on him!

 

[meltonblue]

Yes I probably have, there is a reason for that too. When you are entrenched in any ideology, your mind gets that narrow it only allows what you agree with into it for processing. It would be easier for a blind man to thread a needle than for some on here as you put it to understand another view of issues.The very fact I have been called a “denier” because i am not convinced that humans are causing the planets climate to change. It changed before humans existed. Anyway it is an example of not allowing another opinion but for those that pray at the alter of climate ideology. I do not subscribe to any ideology, this allows me to process various ideas & not just reject them out of hand. However, I do have a weakness, I detest politicians of all the different segments of our system. I remember Billy Connolly saying “ the very fact someone wants to be a politician should prevent them from being one” he was a comedian too
That is my position. Go easy on the Ouzo.
PS
Do you understand syntax? I very much doubt it, along with your misunderstanding of pension schemes, I do not think you know anything about pension schemes that you haven’t read in the Guardian. You know, I actually feel sorry for guys like you

How are you processing ideas though and whose are they that you are taking into consideration?