Henry Nowak murder

[Ban-jani]

Again, not according to the evidence of the pathologist at the trial, who said (in the judge's paraphrase) that "[Nowak] would not have survived, however quickly he received first aid, CPR or expert medical treatment." But I don't get the impression your reaction to this case is subject to reason of this kind.

You can be convicted of gross negligence manslaughter if your behaviour accelerated the victim’s death. I’ll avoid posting my personal opinion of you and your angle on this incident.

 

[Metal Biker]

He has no chance of surviving

Or you now know more than the coroner?

And what is it I posted that’s defending anyone? Try and read information better, whether in the news or what people post on here

It will help you formulate more sensible opinions and not come across so bad

How would they know when they even admitted at the time they didn't even know he had been stabbed and dismissed Henry's complaints? You're arguing from a position of hindsight. Others are arguing that the officers at the scene did not treat the situation with the seriousness it required and did little to nothing to assist him.

Or are you more of the 'lost cause, don't bother' mentality?

 

[KPXBLN]

So because he was a lost cause, yours and the pathologists' defence is the officers shouldn't have even bothered? How was the pathologist going to know that at the time, were they there?

Nope. First of all, the pathologist's role in the trial isn't to defend (or prosecute) anybody. She was there as an expert witness to explain, based on her examination of Nowak's body, in as much detail as she could the circumstances of his death. How many injuries he had, with what type of blade, how deep they were, and so on. In the course of doing so she described the injuries and the effect they would have had on him, including how blood passed into his chest cavity very quickly, and how quickly he died. This led her to conclude, based on her expertise (which I certainly don't have and probably none of us on this forum do) that it was too late for him to be saved, however the police had reacted when they arrived, or if an ambulance had been called.

What I'm saying is that it would therefore be impossible (based on this evidence) to convict the police officers for manslaughter. There's many reasons for that, but the most important would be that their actions did not cause his death. That's not a "defence" of them, it's a statement of what appears to be fact based on the available evidence.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Its emotive language-but i do understand..but it was fait accompli by the time the officers arrived.

As the Judge said the officers switched to life saving mode within minutes.

I can assure everyone that the IOPC investigation will be v thorough. They don't have powers to charge for criminal offences-but I guess they could recommend PSD follow it up-and as they are Police, they of course do-and there will be intense political pressure to do so.

There is going to be trouble in Southampton tonight and it will likely spread-again this country will be threatened by the mob.

It's very emotive mate because this wasn't a bit of a mistake it was monumental from start to finish firstly they believed a murderer instead of an obviously dying young boy who told them 4 times he'd been stabbed, then they dragged him out and handcuffed him then when it became apparent the lad was slipping away they failed to handcuff a murderer. I can well understand the emotions are running high, I hope the protests outside Southampton Police station are peaceful further violence solves nothing but people have a right to peaceful protest. Not long ago there was one outside Rochdale Police station and that was for people who were guilty as sin.

 

[Metal Biker]

Nope. First of all, the pathologist's role in the trial isn't to defend (or prosecute) anybody. She was there as an expert witness to explain, based on her examination of Nowak's body, in as much detail as she could the circumstances of his death. How many injuries he had, with what type of blade, how deep they were, and so on. In the course of doing so she described the injuries and the effect they would have had on him, including how blood passed into his chest cavity very quickly, and how quickly he died. This led her to conclude, based on her expertise (which I certainly don't have and probably none of us on this forum do) that it was too late for him to be saved, however the police had reacted when they arrived, or if an ambulance had been called.

What I'm saying is that it would therefore be impossible (based on this evidence) to convict the police officers for manslaughter. There's many reasons for that, but the most important would be that their actions did not cause his death. That's not a "defence" of them, it's a statement of what appears to be fact based on the available evidence.

In the aftermath. The criticism is of the officer's actions at the scene.

 

[Ban-jani]

Nope. First of all, the pathologist's role in the trial isn't to defend (or prosecute) anybody. She was there as an expert witness to explain, based on her examination of Nowak's body, in as much detail as she could the circumstances of his death. How many injuries he had, with what type of blade, how deep they were, and so on. In the course of doing so she described the injuries and the effect they would have had on him, including how blood passed into his chest cavity very quickly, and how quickly he died. This led her to conclude, based on her expertise (which I certainly don't have and probably none of us on this forum do) that it was too late for him to be saved, however the police had reacted when they arrived, or if an ambulance had been called.

What I'm saying is that it would therefore be impossible (based on this evidence) to convict the police officers for manslaughter. There's many reasons for that, but the most important would be that their actions did not cause his death. That's not a "defence" of them, it's a statement of what appears to be fact based on the available evidence.

As above, you can be convicted of gross negligence manslaughter even if the victim would have died anyway, if your behaviour accelerated the process of death.

 

[abu13]

Quite sad what is happening to the country, feels like a powder keg just waiting for a spark.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

To be fair, if you look in youtube it is kicking off there.

It always has done. No matter which section of society lights the fire but doesn't mean it's going to be a country wide uprising.

 

[bert38]

Why is there 'going to be trouble in Southampton' tonight?

What makes you so sure?

because it was obvious- violent cunts encouraged by Farage.

 

[hello]

As the Judge stated officers called for an ambulance and commenced CPR.

But you make a valid point-why didn't anyone else there intervene or offer help, or call for help, or tell the bloody truth.

They waited at least 3 minutes after he said he couldn’t breathe. There’s no way that’s acceptable. I know police stick together but a pissed bloke in the street doesn’t take 3 minutes to call an ambulance for someone having difficulty breathing.

View attachment 194192
Thats from the Judge. Calm reasoned and evidenced.

you sound like Dermot Gallagher on ref watch after the latest pigmol fuckup. No one with a rationale brain and with biases can watch the video and say they did an adequate job.

 

[bert38]

It always has done. No matter which section of society lights the fire but doesn't mean it's going to be a country wide uprising.

yet its the same anatogonists+Farage, Lowe, Jenrick..Robinson, Tenconi, Fox et al-of course they light the touch paper and then fuck off.

 

[Metal Biker]

because it was obvious- violent cunts encouraged by Farage.

That's conjecture. It'd be like saying every time City play in a football final there will be mass violence and damage because of football hooligans being a thing.

 

[bert38]

They waited at least 3 minutes after he said he couldn’t breathe. There’s no way that’s acceptable. I know police stick together but a pissed bloke in the street doesn’t take 3 minutes to call an ambulance for someone having difficulty breathing.

you sound like Dermot Gallagher on ref watch after the latest pigmol fuckup. No one with a rationale brain and with biases can watch the video and say they did an adequate job.

i've quoted the judge's summary..or do you prefer conjecture?

 

[Don Karleone]

Reform dickheads got what they wanted again.

 

[1964]

agitators at the police station tonight , nearly as bad as them

I see Tommy Ten Names is using this to further his online bollocks.

He’s organised a demo at Southampton police tonight. Ffs.

he is spoiling for a fight , twat,nearly as bad as all that taking a knee shite
make it go away please

 

[bert38]

That's conjecture. It'd be like saying every time City play in a football final there will be mass violence and damage because of football hooligans being a thing.

its literally on youtube-thugs ripping up people's fences, breaking walls to throw bricks at police-one police officer looked badly injured.

Pretty sure I saw two blokes doing Nazi salutes too. Lovely people.

 

[Kinkybyname]

yet its the same anatogonists+Farage, Lowe, Jenrick..Robinson, Tenconi, Fox et al-of course they light the touch paper and then fuck off.

let's hope they're not armed with shastars

 

[i kne albert davy]

Again, not according to the evidence of the pathologist at the trial, who said (in the judge's paraphrase) that "[Nowak] would not have survived, however quickly he received first aid, CPR or expert medical treatment." But I don't get the impression your reaction to this case is subject to reason of this kind.

He may just have survived had the bloke who stabbed him rang for Ambulance rather than the police or not stolen his phone so he could have called himself, how long before police arrived, he was still alive by which time he had no chance.

 

[Don Karleone]

its literally on youtube-thugs ripping up people's fences, breaking walls to throw bricks at police-one police officer looked badly injured.

Pretty sure I saw two blokes doing Nazi salutes too. Lovely people.

You did. Lovely slogan as well.

 

[hello]

any decent human being coming across a non-threatening person curled up on the floor stating that they have been stabbed should not take "minutes" to switch to life saving mode,
let alone someone supposedly trained in the skill of life-saving who decided to drag, handcuff and mock them.
the officer in question is on film. he is a wanker.
you can defend them all you like but they seriously fucked up and you going over and over it isn't going to make it any better.

Absolutely 3 minutes and it takes non responsive pupils to call an ambulance ffs those cunts shouldn’t be trusted with a lollipop stick in terms of public service again.
As to criminal charges probably the coroners report saves them but we will never know how much of the 2 pints in blood in the chest cavity was aggravated by being dragged forced upright and handcuffed. There won’t be a doctor on the planet to say those actions helped.