Henry Nowak murder

Ban-jani said:
As above, you can be convicted of gross negligence manslaughter even if the victim would have died anyway, if your behaviour accelerated the process of death.
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I don't know what your source is for that claim, but the CPS guidelines are very clear in relation to a case of this nature - given the facts as we know them. See under the heading 'Causation', especially § 5 and 6. https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter#_Toc3449133

If you want to have a conversation about how the police massively fucked this up, fine - I said that in my first post on this thread. But your assertion was about crimes for which you would like to see them convicted and I'm afraid you're wrong on this one.
 
Like Shipman didn't just expose one dodgy GP it blew open the whole system that let him operate unchallenged for years because nobody questioned a doctor's word. Could this be that moment for policing? Because what went wrong here wasn't just one officer making a bad call it was the whole thing, a killer opens his mouth, and everything that followed just went along with it. No question asked, no scene checked, nothing. The nearest thing I can compare it to is Macpherson after Stephen Lawrence that forced the whole debate about who the police believe and who they protect out into the open and actually changed things. Nowak feels like it's sitting in exactly the same place. Whether anything actually changes depends on whether there's a proper inquiry with real power behind it or whether it just gets quietly filed away as one unfortunate night in Southampton.
 
KPXBLN said:
I don't know what your source is for that claim, but the CPS guidelines are very clear in relation to a case of this nature - given the facts as we know them. See under the heading 'Causation', especially § 5 and 6. https://www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/gross-negligence-manslaughter#_Toc3449133

If you want to have a conversation about how the police massively fucked this up, fine - I said that in my first post on this thread. But your assertion was about crimes for which you would like to see them convicted and I'm afraid you're wrong on this one.
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“The offence of gross negligence manslaughter is committed where death is the result of a grossly negligent act or omission on the part of the defendant.”

These are factors that will be considered if that charge is brought:
  • How serious were the injuries?
  • Did the officer know or ought to have known there was a risk of death?
  • Did the officer call for medical assistance at all?
  • How long was the delay?
  • Would earlier treatment probably have saved the person’s life?
  • Was the officer acting in the course of their duties and therefore under a duty of care to that individual?

This is a synopsis from previous cases. There’s obviously a couple of bullet points there that will likely fall in the favour of the officer such as the report stating he’d likely have died anyway even with immediate response from the officer attending the scene, but most won’t, we don’t know for sure if he’d have survived and it might be enough to convict based on the rest of the points.
 
Ban-jani said:
We do have a clue, his actions give a massive whopping clue to his thinking.
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This is why we dont convict people based on watching a video.

Without an investigation, without speaking to the people involved, without assessing the reasons they took the actions they took you are guessing.

We've already seen someone from the police who wasnt involved receive death threats because of guessing, we'll likely see disorder in Southampton tonight because of guessing.

Which helps no-one.
 
moomba said:
This is why we dont convict people based on watching a video.

Without an investigation, without speaking to the people involved, without assessing the reasons they took the actions they took you are guessing.

We've already seen someone from the police who wasnt involved receive death threats because of guessing, we'll likely see disorder in Southampton tonight because of guessing.

Which helps no-one.
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The video will the centre piece of the evidence used. It will be the vast majority of what whatever decision is based on.

What the fuck are you going on about?
 
moomba said:
This is why we dont convict people based on watching a video.

Without an investigation, without speaking to the people involved, without assessing the reasons they took the actions they took you are guessing.

We've already seen someone from the police who wasnt involved receive death threats because of guessing, we'll likely see disorder in Southampton tonight because of guessing.

Which helps no-one.
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So why do you think they completely ignored a guy who was saying he’d been stabbed and told them he couldn’t breathe? Go on give us a clue.
 
Ban-jani said:
The video will the centre piece of the evidence used. It will be the vast majority of what whatever decision is based on.

What the fuck are you going on about?
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You and others are guessing the reasons why the police took the actions they did. A video wont tell you that.
 
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