Henry Nowak murder

[moomba]

When George Floyd died politicians here were encouraging people to get angry. What is the difference in this case do you think?

Theres quite a few key differences between George Floyd and Henry Nowak.

1 - George Floyds death was directly caused by police actions, at this stage that doesnt appear to be the case.

2 - People werent protesting the death of George Floyd, they were protesting decades of oppression, violence by police against minorities, lack of accountability in law enforcement. Floyd was the tipping point.

3 - its a long time ago so I could be wrong here but the key message by UK politicians wasnt anger, it was tolerance and acceptance.

 

[Ban-jani]

Theres quite a few key differences between George Floyd and Henry Nowak.

1 - George Floyds death was directly caused by police actions, at this stage that doesnt appear to be the case.

2 - People werent protesting the death of George Floyd, they were protesting decades of oppression, violence by police against minorities, lack of accountability in law enforcement. Floyd was the tipping point.

3 - its a long time ago so I could be wrong here but the key message by UK politicians wasnt anger, it was tolerance and acceptance.

It wasn’t the case, the fact he was ignored, mocked and left to die on the ground in circumstances that shouldn’t have happened was a direct result of discriminatory policing. The incidents aren’t identical but they’re close enough.

There’s been years of accusations of an over correction in how our authorities police and dish out justice, any protests or riots that happen now aren’t just because of this incident. The rapes of thousands of young women and children was covered up by the authorities for the same reason, over decades. It’s astonishing you just forget that.

 

[waspish]

What worries me is the police who were there that has not instinct common sense there thinking is for anyone is always don’t believe what someone is saying!

 

[moomba]

It wasn’t the case, the fact he was ignored, mocked and left to die on the ground in circumstances that shouldn’t have happened was a direct result of discriminatory policing. The incidents aren’t identical but they’re close enough.

If you cant see just how different the two situations are thats up to you.

There’s been years of accusations of an over correction in how our authorities police and dish out justice, any protests or riots that happen now aren’t just because of this incident. The rapes of thousands of young women and children was covered up by the authorities for the same reason, over decades. It’s astonishing you just forget that.

I don't think its particularly relevant to this situation, although the usual auspects are trying desperately hard to make it so. I do the community is right to demand and expect police accountability.

 

[Claytop]

What worries me is the police who were there that has not instinct common sense there thinking is for anyone is always don’t believe what someone is saying!

Thing is, this wasn't just one person's word against the other. This was several witnesses from the same family (was the Mum there too?)

I don't think your first thought would be that a family could be so callous that one of them would commit such an atrocity & then call police and present it in the way they did.

As mentioned before, that family should have 'the book' thrown at them.

 

[Fat Chance]

The kid said he'd been stabbed, the coppers should have transposed from racism to where is the knife...cuffing him and lifting his top up, would have garnered a quicker result...unfortunately they didnt believe him, even after clocking blood.

Lots of people mentioning it was dark ( incl the judge) like the coppers dont run to torches...crime scene and someone mentions stabbing...its knifes about red alert time.

 

[Bluesince1979]

F

its early-I was being pedantic!

I do think senior management teams across the country have at times impacted negatively how police operate on the frontlines due to their own personal ambition-but that's largely due to my own personal experience and is really a much wider topic where police meets politics-I don't think its actually v relevant here.

The report was a racially aggravated assault? The police responded to that-we know now that that was a tissue of lies intended to mislead the officers that arrived and continued upon their arrival. I don't think it goes wider than that in terms of the officers' decision-making.

Fair enough, im not a morning person either ;)

Im not sure youre hinting that you have had professional dealings with the police?
I certainly havent.
Ive had hardly any dealings with the police over the years.

My pal retired approx 10 years ago. He ended up pretty high up.

Going back in time , there was a notorious Stockport gangster. Dont know where youre from but if near stockport youll know who i mean. He caused utter havoc.
The top cop decided on what they called old fashioned policing. Basically mithering him to death! If he was seen driving, pull him over, do it every-time you see him. Even if every day, 5 times a day.
Make it that earning his living as a criminal was very difficult for him.
It worked , it reduced his grip on the town.
In the end another crim took him off the streets.

Fast forward another couple of years and another gangster was causing similar havoc and it was put to the new boss that they adopt similar tactics.
This crim happened to be asian.

They were told by the new boss that in no uncertain terms do they go near him for fear of being accused of racism, this being post mcpherson report. They were warned that of they value careers, pensions etc to back off.
The new boss evem hinted they were being racist for thinking of that plan.

That was the beginning of the end for my pal and he had done his time so got out. Speaking to old colleagues he said it got
Worse and worse and coppers were taking a little step back when dealing with people of colour, thinking twice on how to deal with situations. That cant be right?

My mate said they never gave a fuck what colour somebody was in stockport , a villain was a villain and theyd treat them as such but once they were pushed to be careful when dealing with certain races differently it meant policing was fucked

Sorry to waffle. Its just a little story on how police absolutely do think twice in certain situations

 

[i kne albert davy]

Theres quite a few key differences between George Floyd and Henry Nowak.

1 - George Floyds death was directly caused by police actions, at this stage that doesnt appear to be the case.

2 - People werent protesting the death of George Floyd, they were protesting decades of oppression, violence by police against minorities, lack of accountability in law enforcement. Floyd was the tipping point.

3 - its a long time ago so I could be wrong here but the key message by UK politicians wasnt anger, it was tolerance and acceptance.

You missed
4 George Floyd was a Violent career criminal resisting arrest.
5 Henry Nowak was a innocent young lad who was dying.

 

[Ban-jani]

If you cant see just how different the two situations are thats up to you.



I don't think it’s particularly relevant to this situation, although the usual auspects are trying desperately hard to make it so. I do the community is right to demand and expect police accountability.

Why don’t you explain how they’re different?


It is very relevant to this situation. The police’s stance on “anti-racism” resulted in victim’s claims being dismissed. It’s exactly the same thought process that happened to Henry Nowak.

 

[KPXBLN]

What they should have done, clearly, is taken more cognisance of what Nowak was telling them about his injuries - any potential criminal aspect should have been bottomed out later. The priority should never have been to get him in cuffs or read him his rights but to ensure his wellbeing given the state which he was in.

I think this is crucial. Even if he had racially abused and/or assaulted Digwa, which they seemingly believed he had, this was the wrong way to respond once he communicated with them about his injuries and his condition. Race is relevant in that the murderer's lie about what happened was based on a claim about racism, but I think the officers' mistakes go beyond that. They weren't wrong because Nowak in fact hadn't attacked Digwa (although it's true that he hadn't), they were wrong even if he had.

 

[stonerblue]

When George Floyd died politicians here were encouraging people to get angry. What is the difference in this case do you think?

Which politicians and what did thry say?

 

[moomba]

Why don’t you explain how they’re different?

I did. You ignored most of it.

It is very relevant to this situation. The police’s stance on “anti-racism” resulted in victim’s claims being dismissed. It’s exactly the same thought process that happened to Henry Nowak.

We dont know why the victims claims were dismissed. You've made a presumption based on your biases.

That will be determined by an investigation.

 

[Blue Bogey]

We are so f***ing soft in this country! It needs to change, or protests like this in Southampton will get bigger and more frequent, and there are those who will relish in it.

So many people are blind to what is happening in this country, reasoning with them is pointless as they are lost to the propaganda that has been pushed by the media.

 

[moomba]

You missed
4 George Floyd was a Violent career criminal resisting arrest.
5 Henry Nowak was a innocent young lad who was dying.

Unless yu believe having a criminal history makes someone deserving of having his neck stood on, I'm not sure I've missed anything.

 

[Worzel Gummidge#9]

Still Infuriated with how the police dealt with this, it is totally unacceptable, I’ve watched the video a few times and absolutely disgusted by them.

 

[bert38]

F

Fair enough, im not a morning person either ;)

Im not sure youre hinting that you have had professional dealings with the police?
I certainly havent.
Ive had hardly any dealings with the police over the years.

My pal retired approx 10 years ago. He ended up pretty high up.

Going back in time , there was a notorious Stockport gangster. Dont know where youre from but if near stockport youll know who i mean. He caused utter havoc.
The top cop decided on what they called old fashioned policing. Basically mithering him to death! If he was seen driving, pull him over, do it every-time you see him. Even if every day, 5 times a day.
Make it that earning his living as a criminal was very difficult for him.
It worked , it reduced his grip on the town.
In the end another crim took him off the streets.

Fast forward another couple of years and another gangster was causing similar havoc and it was put to the new boss that they adopt similar tactics.
This crim happened to be asian.

They were told by the new boss that in no uncertain terms do they go near him for fear of being accused of racism, this being post mcpherson report. They were warned that of they value careers, pensions etc to back off.
The new boss evem hinted they were being racist for thinking of that plan.

That was the beginning of the end for my pal and he had done his time so got out. Speaking to old colleagues he said it got
Worse and worse and coppers were taking a little step back when dealing with people of colour, thinking twice on how to deal with situations. That cant be right?

My mate said they never gave a fuck what colour somebody was in stockport , a villain was a villain and theyd treat them as such but once they were pushed to be careful when dealing with certain races differently it meant policing was fucked

Sorry to waffle. Its just a little story on how police absolutely do think twice in certain situations

I concur with everything you say. that's why I mentioned somewhere that the removal of discretion has not helped policing-its trying to produce control of officer behaviour when the job itself is chaotic.

i was a police officer for 25 years, an Inspector for the vast majority-I left on the first day I could because I could no longer deal with 12 hour shift, in particular the long nights that were killing me-and despite my rank I found sat in meetings on day shifts incredibly boring and I no longer wanted to play those games.

And yes, one of the earliest things I learnt was the best way to get a drug dealer, or similar criminal locked up was to get them disqualified from driving-people go to prison for driving whilst disqualified-and its very easy to prove!

But yeah there's been huge change-a lot for the better but much for the worse-its a minefield of being scared to say or do the wrong thing-yet ttp brass can seemingly do pretty much anything without sanction.

I always add the caveat when rambling about policing that over time my experience becomes less relevant-I retired more than 5 years ago-so eventually I'll just be a gibbering wreck in the corner banging on about the good old days..

 

[Ban-jani]

I did. You ignored most of it.



We dont know why the victims claims were dismissed. You've made a presumption based on your biases.

That will be determined by an investigation.

You only said the police officer in Floyd’s case directly caused death (murder) because of his own discrimination. I’m saying the police officer’s discrimination in Nowak’s case resulted in how he ended up dying. The cases aren’t identical, but there’s a severe issue of bias in both cases, that should be reviewed in both US and UK policing retrospectively.

Do you think the police officer behaved with bias? And if so, where did that bias come from? Don’t cop out by saying wait for the inquiry, the footage is there for us to debate beforehand…

 

[bert38]

The kid said he'd been stabbed, the coppers should have transposed from racism to where is the knife...cuffing him and lifting his top up, would have garnered a quicker result...unfortunately they didnt believe him, even after clocking blood.

Lots of people mentioning it was dark ( incl the judge) like the coppers dont run to torches...crime scene and someone mentions stabbing...its knifes about red alert time.

perhaps-and they did after 1-3 minutes..but the Judge even said in his summing up-'people lie to the police when arrested'-I'm not excusing it, I'm trying to explain a thought process, especially if you wrongly assume you are dealing with an intoxicated male who has been gobby.

in that situation would it cross my mind that Henry had been stabbed in the chest? Certainly no quicker than the officers did.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Unless yu believe having a criminal history makes someone deserving of having his neck stood on, I'm not sure I've missed anything.

No it was totally wrong, but it was 4 thousand miles away in someone else’s country.This happened here why the police officers involved didn’t check the lad’s condition out is beyond belief. Don’t get me wrong the civil disobedience in Southampton was stirred up by politicians plus the media and solves nothing, same as the BLM civil disobedience was exactly the same two cheeks same arse.

 

[i kne albert davy]

perhaps-and they did after 1-3 minutes..but the Judge even said in his summing up-'people lie to the police when arrested'-I'm not excusing it, I'm trying to explain a thought process, especially if you wrongly assume you are dealing with an intoxicated male who has been gobby.

in that situation would it cross my mind that Henry had been stabbed in the chest? Certainly no quicker than the officers did.

I appreciate your input even if i may well not agree all the time, are you saying when the lad who was so obviously slipping away said i’ve been stabbed to you 4 times and i can’t breathe 9 times you wouldn’t have looked.