Graham Poll on Five Live: Man City, refs and the FA

[jay_mcfc]

I was listening to this yesterday and could not believe my ears. Admittance as if it was ever needed that Balotelli is given differential treatment. I know he's not a referee any more but City should take what Poll said with them to the FA.

 

[nijinskybell]

It's obvious that refs treat the same fouls differently from game-to-game, player-to-player etc.

They justify it by saying they are trying to keep order in what could become a volatile game but, surely, if a foul is just that you give a free kick, if it warrants a yellow or red card you give it - it shouldn't depend on anything else; not the player, the team, the current score, how the fans are reacting or anything other than purely what he has actually done.

We are not a bunch of cloggers but our players are picking up cheap cards very quickly whereas other teams are getting cards only after numerous fouls, if at all. It would be interesting to see any stats on cards per tackle ratios.

 

[Plain Speaking]

It's obvious that refs treat the same fouls differently from game-to-game, player-to-player etc.

They justify it by saying they are trying to keep order in what could become a volatile game but, surely, if a foul is just that you give a free kick, if it warrants a yellow or red card you give it - it shouldn't depend on anything else; not the player, the team, the current score, how the fans are reacting or anything other than purely what he has actually done.

We are not a bunch of cloggers but our players are picking up cheap cards very quickly whereas other teams are getting cards only after numerous fouls, if at all. It would be interesting to see any stats on cards per tackle ratios.

Agreed. Refs are pre-judging players on reputation and giving "volatile" players like Balo, (and Barton no doubt), yellow cards to calm them down! No wonder Balo was agrieved he hardly touched Assou Ekotto. I fear for Balo's future in this country with opposing players, managers and fans trying to get players sent off.

 

[glossop is blue]

Don't take any notice of what "Mr Three Yellow Cards" has to say.

The crux of the problem is referees saying later that they did or did not see an incident, get them to take a lie detector test is the solution.

I was alsowondering why thew refs report takes so long to be given to the FA.

Surely the report should be done immediately after the game and not once the ref has watched the sky witchhunt or motd pubdits talking shite.

This should be the case!

 

[trueblue gio]

I just sent the below to the FA, I expect I will get a standard reply

As a fan for over 30 years of my club and football in general, I have to report that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with how the sport is being officiated, so much so that it is seriously tarnishing my enjoyment and questioning my long term commitment to the game.

I would very much appreciate if the FA could explain how fixtures are officiated and what incidents require retrospective actions to be taken. Is the fixture solely under the charge of the appointed official at the time of the match, or do the FA now follow media agendas and steered by opinions of non FA appointed official?

Three recent Manchester City matches have, for me, brought to a head the inconsistencies within the game.

Match One Manchester City v Liverpool (PL Fixture) the appointed referee was, in my opinion biased towards Liverpool throughout the game. This was so marked that spectators in my stand were speculating on how much of a bribe he had taken. Most borderline decisions were given in Liverpool's favour, yellow cards were given to City players on first offences. Liverpool players were however dealt with by a 'quiet word' and then involving the club captain. This, in my opinion, showed a blatant agenda by the referee in his officiation of this fixture.

Match Two Manchester City v Manchester United (FAC Fixture), the sending off of Mr Vincent Kompany for what was deemed a dangerous lunging tackle. The tackle was actually one footed and the second foot came in to control the ball once it had been won. Most 'pundits' and observers thought that it was a fair tackle and were shocked to see it punished with a red card. I was willing to give the referee the benefit of the doubt in his issuing of the card (under pressure from Mr Wayne Rooney) as he only has one chance to see the tackle and in full speed. I was however shocked (but not surprised) that the FA Disciplinary Committee upheld the decision on review, despite the wide consensus being that it was a good and fair tackle.

Match Three Manchester City v Tottenham Hotspurs (PL Fixture) the retrospective punishment of Mr Mario Balotelli is of concern to me. How did this come about? Do the FA review every second of every game on a Monday morning and inform referees of missed decisions? Or do they only act on media induced hysteria brought about by slow motion replays? I understand that Mr Balotelli and Mr Joleon Lescott were both investigated for incidents in this fixture. Can you please explain why, only these two incidents were investigated? I do not understand how the tackle from Mr Scott Parker on Mr Micah Richards was not re-looked at. This was a two footed lunging challenge, as we have learnt from the above Kompany tackle (by the match referee and upheld by the FA Disciplinary Committee) it does not matter if the ball was 'won' lunging tackles are dangerous and Mr Parker should have been dismissed from the field of play. In the last moments of the match Mr Balotelli was fouled within the penalty area and correctly awarded a penalty kick. However in my view the tackle from Mr Ledley King was also a lunging two footed scissor style tackle that was dangerous and could have resulted in broken limbs, no caution was issued by the referee for this tackle.

I look forward to receiving your explanation of my above points and not your standard 'thank you for your interest' reply.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I'd never believe there was a bias within the FA but there is an inconsistency

GP needs to cogitate on what he stated.

Is there any difference of meaning between the above and this amended version: I'd never believe there was a bias within the FA but there is a bias.

The inconsistencies are so blatant that it can only be explained by bias.

 

[CMS77]

Graham Poll contradicts himself ever interview. I get his point that there are players like Mario that are volatile and if using common sense you would keep an eye on incidents involving them.

However this is in direct conflict with FIFA who are trying to make rules black and white.

 

[pei manc]

I too have finally had enough of the dubious officiating within the Premier League in favor of the Sky favorites. It appears now as if they don’t even try to hide it probably because they are answerable to nobody. On reflection though what do we expect when which referee is chosen to handle which game by the one and only, Mr. United himself, Mike Riley.

Have you tried getting in touch with them via their organization? Professional Games Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) it is run, regulated and controlled by general manager Mike Riley, It’s impossible, nobody, it appears, can even question them, as they are an independent body hired by the premier league, hiding behind their limited company and the F.A.

In my opinion the standard of officiating, possibly with the exception of Mike Dean, has dropped dramatically since the referee’s salary was introduced. Now we have a chosen few, (all pro Sky4?), who are paid a salary, thus they now cannot be struck off the list or suffer any financial hardship for incompetence.

If PGMOL is a company then why cannot it hire the more competent referees from Europe and dismiss the dross we have to endure week in week out, or maybe, as evidenced in European games, these referees cannot be swayed into ignoring certain player’s (wannabe assistant referees a la Rooney), or favor certain teams actions.

We as fans pay, or over the years have paid, a lot of money to watch the game. All we ask for is a fair and equitable official who we trust to handle the game in an unbiased, agenda free manner. Is this too much to ask, and who is there to monitor and police them from allegations or incidents of corruption? Who monitors this, and how often?

Finally, I find myself rolling my eyes when I see that FIFA badge on the ref’s shirt, because in my mind it stands for Fully Incompetent Fuckin’ Amateur.

 

[richardtheref]

I too have finally had enough of the dubious officiating within the Premier League in favor of the Sky favorites. It appears now as if they don’t even try to hide it probably because they are answerable to nobody. On reflection though what do we expect when which referee is chosen to handle which game by the one and only, Mr. United himself, Mike Riley.

Have you tried getting in touch with them via their organization? Professional Games Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) it is run, regulated and controlled by general manager Mike Riley, It’s impossible, nobody, it appears, can even question them, as they are an independent body hired by the premier league, hiding behind their limited company and the F.A.

In my opinion the standard of officiating, possibly with the exception of Mike Dean, has dropped dramatically since the referee’s salary was introduced. Now we have a chosen few, (all pro Sky4?), who are paid a salary, thus they now cannot be struck off the list or suffer any financial hardship for incompetence.

If PGMOL is a company then why cannot it hire the more competent referees from Europe and dismiss the dross we have to endure week in week out, or maybe, as evidenced in European games, these referees cannot be swayed into ignoring certain player’s (wannabe assistant referees a la Rooney), or favor certain teams actions.

We as fans pay, or over the years have paid, a lot of money to watch the game. All we ask for is a fair and equitable official who we trust to handle the game in an unbiased, agenda free manner. Is this too much to ask, and who is there to monitor and police them from allegations or incidents of corruption? Who monitors this, and how often?

Finally, I find myself rolling my eyes when I see that FIFA badge on the ref’s shirt, because in my mind it stands for Fully Incompetent Fuckin’ Amateur.

Just one point my friend. They can be "struck off". This is why D'Urso and Tanner are now in the football league. Mr Rennie was also relegated until he resigned.

 

[blueyorkie]

If you've got someone like Balotelli you see him in the mood you give him a yellow card, the next couple of minutes you watch him like a hawk. to protect him as much as anything..its not to pick on him...It's not to go "I'm going to get him sent off", you can nip it in the bud as soon as a tackle goes in your in there ..bang...thats a free kick.

That's disgraceful if that is the case. What he's effectively saying (and what we've all seen with our eyes) is that referees will be quicker to give out yellow cards to Mario than other players. The club need to take this to the FA to make sure this isn't happening as it is against the spirit of the game.

Poll admitted that after his sending off at Anfield, in his column in the Mail he said one rule for Mario another for anyone else.

 

[Plain Speaking]

I too have finally had enough of the dubious officiating within the Premier League in favor of the Sky favorites. It appears now as if they don’t even try to hide it probably because they are answerable to nobody. On reflection though what do we expect when which referee is chosen to handle which game by the one and only, Mr. United himself, Mike Riley.

Have you tried getting in touch with them via their organization? Professional Games Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) it is run, regulated and controlled by general manager Mike Riley, It’s impossible, nobody, it appears, can even question them, as they are an independent body hired by the premier league, hiding behind their limited company and the F.A.

In my opinion the standard of officiating, possibly with the exception of Mike Dean, has dropped dramatically since the referee’s salary was introduced. Now we have a chosen few, (all pro Sky4?), who are paid a salary, thus they now cannot be struck off the list or suffer any financial hardship for incompetence.

If PGMOL is a company then why cannot it hire the more competent referees from Europe and dismiss the dross we have to endure week in week out, or maybe, as evidenced in European games, these referees cannot be swayed into ignoring certain player’s (wannabe assistant referees a la Rooney), or favor certain teams actions.

We as fans pay, or over the years have paid, a lot of money to watch the game. All we ask for is a fair and equitable official who we trust to handle the game in an unbiased, agenda free manner. Is this too much to ask, and who is there to monitor and police them from allegations or incidents of corruption? Who monitors this, and how often?

Finally, I find myself rolling my eyes when I see that FIFA badge on the ref’s shirt, because in my mind it stands for Fully Incompetent Fuckin’ Amateur.

The influence that Ferguson feels he has on officials was revealed in April 2011, When Lee Mason admitted he would have sent Rooney off for swearing down a camera , Ferguson actually said "I feel sorry for Lee Mason...
I dont know where his career is going to go now"

As if a referees career could be blighted for giving an unfavourable decision against a United player!
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3516739/Alex-Ferguson-Referee-Lee-Mason-was-put-under-pressure-in-Rooney-swear-row.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... r-row.html</a>
(video clip at 3.21)

It would be good if some investigative journalist could reveal the corruption behind PL referee system?

 

[Young Blue]

I too have finally had enough of the dubious officiating within the Premier League in favor of the Sky favorites. It appears now as if they don’t even try to hide it probably because they are answerable to nobody. On reflection though what do we expect when which referee is chosen to handle which game by the one and only, Mr. United himself, Mike Riley.

Have you tried getting in touch with them via their organization? Professional Games Match Officials Limited (PGMOL) it is run, regulated and controlled by general manager Mike Riley, It’s impossible, nobody, it appears, can even question them, as they are an independent body hired by the premier league, hiding behind their limited company and the F.A.

In my opinion the standard of officiating, possibly with the exception of Mike Dean, has dropped dramatically since the referee’s salary was introduced. Now we have a chosen few, (all pro Sky4?), who are paid a salary, thus they now cannot be struck off the list or suffer any financial hardship for incompetence.

If PGMOL is a company then why cannot it hire the more competent referees from Europe and dismiss the dross we have to endure week in week out, or maybe, as evidenced in European games, these referees cannot be swayed into ignoring certain player’s (wannabe assistant referees a la Rooney), or favor certain teams actions.

We as fans pay, or over the years have paid, a lot of money to watch the game. All we ask for is a fair and equitable official who we trust to handle the game in an unbiased, agenda free manner. Is this too much to ask, and who is there to monitor and police them from allegations or incidents of corruption? Who monitors this, and how often?

Finally, I find myself rolling my eyes when I see that FIFA badge on the ref’s shirt, because in my mind it stands for Fully Incompetent Fuckin’ Amateur.

The influence that Ferguson feels he has on officials was revealed in April 2011, When Lee Mason admitted he would have sent Rooney off for swearing down a camera , Ferguson actually said "I feel sorry for Lee Mason...
I dont know where his career is going to go now"

As if a referees career could be blighted for giving an unfavourable decision against a United player!
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3516739/Alex-Ferguson-Referee-Lee-Mason-was-put-under-pressure-in-Rooney-swear-row.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... r-row.html</a>
(video clip at 3.21)

It would be good if some investigative journalist could reveal the corruption behind PL referee system?

Pity NOTW is not still around!
Maybe Panorama investigation?

 

[trueblue gio]

Reply received from FA, not as detailed as I would like!!!

Dear Paul,Thank you for contacting the Football Association. Whilst understanding your frustration as a football fan, every supporter will have an opinion on the game’s major talking points and we’re always interested to hear them. The Football Association receives frequent correspondence on individual refereeing decisions across all levels of football as well as on the performance of referees in general. It is important to understand that without a referee there is no game and as a result the long-term health of football relies on recruiting, retaining and developing referees. Whilst 100% consistency is impossible when human judgment is introduced into a situation, referees get the overwhelmingly majority of decisions right. In fact they are arguably the most consistent people in the game making split-second decisions that will be analysed repeatedly by slow motion cameras and panels of football experts.The FA only act retrospectively in off the ball 'not seen' scenarios, where the referee would have been unable to see a particular incident. Where an official has seen a coming together of players, regardless of the outcome, no retrospective action can be taken in accordance with FIFA guidance. If the referee in his report, confirms that had he seen an incident, he would have sent the player off, retrospective action can then be taken.

There is a system in place for monitoring the performance of referees and referee's assistants. This involves referees assessors and reports from club managers. All assessors come from a footballing background and the majority are fully qualified referees themselves. The performances of referees over a season are then taken into consideration when the leagues appoint their referees for the following season.

The Select Group officiates in the Premier League and is the responsibility of Mike Riley, General Manager of the Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL). Premier League refereeing enquiries should be addressed to Mike Riley, The Premier League, 30 Gloucester Place, London W1U 8PL or via info@premierleague.com.

We do appreciate all of the feedback we receive from supporters. This feedback is collated and used to build a picture of public opinion and is subsequently fed back internally within the organisation. Please rest assured your comments will form part of this feedback process. Best wishes,John Stanley | Customer RelationsThe Football Association
Wembley Stadium, Wembley, London, HA9 0WSPostal address: Wembley Stadium, PO Box 1966, London, SW1P 9EQ T 0844 980 8200 (option 3) | F 0844 980 0666 |www.TheFA.com/Feedback **If you wish to reply, please click on the link below to go to the contact us form**
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.thefa.com/feedback" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.thefa.com/feedback</a> From: info@thefa.com [mailto:info@thefa.com]
Sent: 24 January 2012 14:04

Clarification on how fixtures are officiatedFANNumber: 56554231Email:
As a fan for over 30 years of my club and football in general, I have to report that I am becoming more and more disillusioned with how the sport is being officiated, so much so that it is seriously tarnishing my enjoyment and questioning my long term commitment to the game. I would very much appreciate if the FA could explain how fixtures are officiated and what incidents require retrospective actions to be taken. Is the fixture solely under the charge of the appointed official at the time of the match, or do the FA now follow media agendas and steered by opinions of non FA appointed official?

Three recent Manchester City matches have, for me, brought to a head the inconsistencies within the game.
Match One Manchester City v Liverpool (PL Fixture) the appointed referee was, in my opinion biased towards Liverpool throughout the game. This was so marked that spectators in my stand were speculating on how much of a bribe he had taken. Most borderline decisions were given in Liverpool's favour, yellow cards were given to City players on first offences. Liverpool players were however dealt with by a 'quiet word' and then involving the club captain. This, in my opinion, showed a blatant agenda by the referee in his officiation of this fixture.
Match Two Manchester City v Manchester United (FAC Fixture), the sending off of Mr Vincent Kompany for what was deemed a dangerous lunging tackle. The tackle was actually one footed and the second foot came in to control the ball once it had been won. Most 'pundits' and observers thought that it was a fair tackle and were shocked to see it punished with a red card. I was willing to give the referee the benefit of the doubt in his issuing of the card (under pressure from Mr Wayne Rooney) as he only has one chance to see the tackle and in full speed. I was however shocked (but not surprised) that the FA Disciplinary Committee upheld the decision on review, despite the wide consensus being that it was a good and fair tackle.
Match Three Manchester City v Tottenham Hotspurs (PL Fixture) the retrospective punishment of Mr Mario Balotelli is of concern to me. How did this come about? Do the FA review every second of every game on a Monday morning and inform referees of missed decisions? Or do they only act on media induced hysteria brought about by slow motion replays? I understand that Mr Balotelli and Mr Joleon Lescott were both investigated for incidents in this fixture. Can you please explain why, only these two incidents were investigated? I do not understand how the tackle from Mr Scott Parker on Mr Micah Richards was not re-looked at. This was a two footed lunging challenge, as we have learnt from the above Kompany tackle (by the match referee and upheld by the FA Disciplinary Committee) it does not matter if the ball was 'won' lunging tackles are dangerous and Mr Parker should have been dismissed from the field of play. In the last moments of the match Mr Balotelli was fouled within the penalty area and correctly awarded a penalty kick. However in my view the tackle from Mr Ledley King was also a lunging two footed scissor style tackle that was dangerous and could have resulted in broken limbs, no caution was issued by the referee for this tackle.

I look forward to receiving your explanation of my above points and not your standard 'thank you for your interest' reply.

 

[Balti]

If you've got someone like Balotelli you see him in the mood you give him a yellow card, the next couple of minutes you watch him like a hawk. to protect him as much as anything..its not to pick on him...It's not to go "I'm going to get him sent off", you can nip it in the bud as soon as a tackle goes in your in there ..bang...thats a free kick.

That's disgraceful if that is the case. What he's effectively saying (and what we've all seen with our eyes) is that referees will be quicker to give out yellow cards to Mario than other players. The club need to take this to the FA to make sure this isn't happening as it is against the spirit of the game.

if that isn't bias then I don't know what is

 

[Sigh]

Somewhere between "they do what they want" and "they don't know what they are doing" then: just like time-miskeeping.

Carry on, sweet F.A., carry on.

 

[DTeacher]

''.....What I would also like, is what I used to be able to do and I did it on 3 occasions when I sent someone off wrongly, I looked at the video and went "I am wrong please take that into account" and thats been taken away from referees now....''

Definitely agree with that ^^^^.


It is also scandalous but not surprising that they treat certain players differently.

 

[Wheelsy]

Reply received from FA, not as detailed as I would like!!!.

Mate, that wasn't a reply. That's their stock standard "fuck off and leave us alone".

People from here have received that exact email word for word.