Racial abuse on train?

[Utter bobbins]

Some on here appear to have made up their mind based on a newspaper article and have found these lads guilty with out any evidence to support their argument. If it happened then they deserve everything coming to them

 

[Dribble]

Yes I'd suggest getting evidence/images of the culprits for the police is doing something

I refer you to one of my previous posts:

In terms of people saying this is bullshit because no-one filmed it, isn't that attitude just indicative of the 'I was there' Youtube generation? I suppose if those very same people were in a bank when a gang of armed robbers burst in, instead of laying flat and complying with the gangs demands, they'd whip out their I-Phone's and start recording as the drama unfolds for posterity.....

Anyone who'd pull out a recording device in such situations is obviously someone who's never been in a life threatening situation before and thinks that what they've seen in a Hollywood have-a-go hero vigilante film is really true to life. In Hollywood, dead or alive you live to star in another film, in real life you only get one shot at it.

 

[Utter bobbins]

I refer you to one of my previous posts:

In terms of people saying this is bullshit because no-one filmed it, isn't that attitude just indicative of the 'I was there' Youtube generation? I suppose if those very same people were in a bank when a gang of armed robbers burst in, instead of laying flat and complying with the gangs demands, they'd whip out their I-Phone's and start recording as the drama unfolds for posterity.....

Anyone who'd pull out a recording device in such situations is obviously someone who's never been in a life threatening situation before and thinks that what they've seen in a Hollywood have-a-go hero vigilante film is really true to life. In Hollywood, dead or alive you live to star in another film, in real life you only get one shot at it.

You seem to be saying it's true because it's in the newspaper

 

[ell]

I refer you to one of my previous posts:

In terms of people saying this is bullshit because no-one filmed it, isn't that attitude just indicative of the 'I was there' Youtube generation? I suppose if those very same people were in a bank when a gang of armed robbers burst in, instead of laying flat and complying with the gangs demands, they'd whip out their I-Phone's and start recording as the drama unfolds for posterity.....

Anyone who'd pull out a recording device in such situations is obviously someone who's never been in a life threatening situation before and thinks that what they've seen in a Hollywood have-a-go hero vigilante film is really true to life. In Hollywood, dead or alive you live to star in another film, in real life you only get one shot at it.

You're comparing an armed robbery of a bank, to a couple of pissed up blokes racially abusing a 14 FOURTEEN year old boy?

I'm certain we're never going to agree on this one so i'll just leave it here.

 

[Dribble]

You seem to be saying it's true because it's in the newspaper

No I'm not, but you seem to be suggesting that just because there isn't a Youtube video doing the rounds of the incident that it can't possibly be true. I'm not saying its true one way or the other, but I would question why a seemingly normal family of four would seek to make up such a public lie.

That said, the rest of what I've said are hypotheticals based on what I'd probably do if I was there whilst also questioning who would seriously pull out a recording device if faced with a very threatening situation whereby you could still get stamped out and the recording device taken anyway. What sense does that make?

 

[Utter bobbins]

No I'm not, but you seem to be suggesting that just because there isn't a Youtube video doing the rounds of the incident that it can't possibly be true. I'm not saying its true one way or the other, but I would question why a seemingly normal family of four would seek to make up such a public lie.

That said, the rest of what I've said are hypotheticals based on what I'd probably do if I was there whilst also questioning who would seriously pull out a recording device if faced with a very threatening situation whereby you could still get stamped out and the recording device taken anyway. What sense does that make?

Absolutely not you cannot judge anything without hard facts I'm not saying it did or did not happen

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Trial by online forum based on a story in a newspaper is never going to end well.
This thread needs to die a death.

 

[Dribble]

You're comparing an armed robbery of a bank, to a couple of pissed up blokes racially abusing a 14 FOURTEEN year old boy?

I'm certain we're never going to agree on this one so i'll just leave it here.

Where did anyone report it was a couple of pissed up blokes? I'm sure if it was, someone out of the possible 70+ passengers would have said or done something, but the very fact no-one intervened leads me to believe there were more than 2 pissed up blokes.

Comparing an armed robbery and a gang of aggressive pissed up football fans is one and the same to me and in neither situation would my first thought be 'I know what, I'll record me possibly inflaming the situation and getting my head stamped out or a sawn off shoved in face so I can collect evidence for the authorities'. If the alleged perpetrators were really serious, who the hell would put themselves and those around them in harms way by whipping out their phone to record the incident?

Would you?

 

[Dribble]

Absolutely not you cannot judge anything without hard facts I'm not saying it did or did not happen

Neither am I. All I'm doing is saying based on what was reported, there is a possibility something did take place which is up to the authorities to collect any evidence or statements and to do what is necessary based on what they find.

What I don't get is people saying, well if it isn't on Youtube, no way did it happen.

 

[ell]

Where did anyone report it was a couple of pissed up blokes? I'm sure if it was, someone out of the possible 70+ passengers would have said or done something, but the very fact no-one intervened leads me to believe there were more than 2 pissed up blokes.

Comparing an armed robbery and a gang of aggressive pissed up football fans is one and the same to me and in neither situation would my first thought be 'I know what, I'll record me possibly inflaming the situation and getting my head stamped out or a sawn off shoved in face so I can collect evidence for the authorities'. If the alleged perpetrators were really serious, who the hell would put themselves and those around them in harms way by whipping out their phone to record the incident?

Would you?

If I was in a bank with a sawn off shotgun in my face, I would'nt do anything the bank can afford to lose a few quid and the two scenarios are nothing alike.

If I was on a train and some blokes were banging on a door to get to a 14 year old kid (which is what has been alleged) then I would step in, not because I'm some sort of hardman or hero. quite the opposite i'm a total shithouse, but because I couldn't just sit there watching some poor kid who cant defend himself getting abused. If you saw an old lady getting her handbag snatched walking down the road would you just walk on by and pretend you didn't see anything?

Like I say, we wont agree on this. I've been brought up differently, I couldn't just walk on by and pretend nothing has happened. But then again, I've not got kids or anything so taking a bit of a kicking to try to protect a child, I've only got myself to think about.

 

[Dribble]

If I was in a bank with a sawn off shotgun in my face, I wouldn't do anything the bank can afford to lose a few quid and the two scenarios are nothing alike.

If I was on a train and some blokes were banging on a door to get to a 14 year old kid (which is what has been alleged) then I would step in, not because I'm some sort of hardman or hero. quite the opposite i'm a total shithouse, but because I couldn't just sit there watching some poor kid who cant defend himself getting abused. If you saw an old lady getting her handbag snatched walking down the road would you just walk on by and pretend you didn't see anything?

Like I say, we wont agree on this. I've been brought up differently, I couldn't just walk on by and pretend nothing has happened. But then again, I've not got kids or anything so taking a bit of a kicking to try to protect a child, I've only got myself to think about.

Again, you're calling it a 'some blokes' when by the sound of it, it was a carriage full of pissed up football fans and as such I would say you're understating the alleged situation to underpin your point of view. Two blokes, some blokes is one thing, a carriage full of pissed up football fans is something completely different.

In terms of the old lady being mugged, if I could apprehend the culprit then I'd probably do so, but to be honest doing so would come second to helping the old lady in the first place. Neither is the right or wrong course of action, its just a choice one would have to make in a split second but if you're asking if I'd just walk past and ignore her then that is a firm no. What would be a better analogy would be if it was an old lady being abused by people in a group of 30-40 pissed up football fans, then I probably wouldn't intervene, but I'd wait until the situation had dissipated and then assist her.

I remember getting into trouble as a youngster because of someone verbally starting on me, and I'll always remember my mother saying 'Son, it was just words and those words won't break your bones. Now look at the trouble you're in because of words.' I'm not condoning racist taunts in any way shape or form, but experience has taught me there isn't a one-size-fits all reaction to every situation. Each situation you find yourself in has to be weighed up on their individual merits and for me shoving a camera in the faces of a carriage full of pissed up football fans isn't a very bright idea imo.

 

[Tanzeylee]

Again, you're calling it a 'some blokes' when by the sound of it, it was a carriage full of pissed up football fans and as such I would say you're understating the alleged situation to underpin your point of view. Two blokes, some blokes is one thing, a carriage full of pissed up football fans is something completely different.

In terms of the old lady being mugged, if I could apprehend the culprit then I'd probably do so, but to be honest doing so would come second to helping the old lady in the first place. Neither is the right or wrong course of action, its just a choice one would have to make in a split second but if you're asking if I'd just walk past and ignore her then that is a firm no. What would be a better analogy would be if it was an old lady being abused by people in a group of 30-40 pissed up football fans, then I probably wouldn't intervene, but I'd wait until the situation had dissipated and then assist her.

I remember getting into trouble as a youngster because of someone verbally starting on me, and I'll always remember my mother saying 'Son, it was just words and those words won't break your bones. Now look at the trouble you're in because of words.' I'm not condoning racist taunts in any way shape or form, but experience has taught me there isn't a one-size-fits all reaction to every situation. Each situation you find yourself in has to be weighed up on their individual merits and for me shoving a camera in the faces of a carriage full of pissed up football fans isn't a very bright idea.

I would suggest that you are overestimating the alleged situation without any evidence whatsoever, your now saying it was a carriage full of pissed up footy fans all baying for a 14yos blood, maybe a good thing for you to do is step away from the thread until some fact come out, and mate your coming across as if your scared of you own shadow.

 

[Deleted member 58678]

Trial by online forum based on a story in a newspaper is never going to end well.
This thread needs to die a death.

It did on page 1

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I was on the 5:20pm train coming back and it wasn't anywhere near full, plus I think there were police on the train and they certainly hauled a few lads off to one side at Piccadilly and were having words with them. It was a dry train, I didn't see or hear any rowdiness on the train and I can't imagine the 6pm train would have been much different. If lads were going on the piss, they'd have been travelling later I imagine.

That doesn't mean that something didn't happen on that train but I suspect that if it was something really serious we'd have heard about it from other sources. What I don't understand is why they went to the MEN when the police were supposedly investigating it. Maybe the parents or kid were being a bit lippy and provoked it, maybe they exaggerated the scale of the incident or maybe the police told them the incident didn't warrant any further action or there wasn't enough evidence to pursue it. No one but the people who witnessed it really knows.

Having said that, if there was an incident then I hope the people responsible get caught and punished.

 

[happychappy]

I would suggest that you are overestimating the alleged situation without any evidence whatsoever, your now saying it was a carriage full of pissed up footy fans all baying for a 14yos blood, maybe a good thing for you to do is step away from the thread until some fact come out, and mate your coming across as if your scared of you own shadow.

Be surprised if it was a full carriage as it was an early kick off, blues had the option of multi trains home, we were on the 19.40 and they're were only about 15 people/ 10 blues in our carriage

 

[Tanzeylee]

Be surprised if it was a full carriage as it was an early kick off, blues had the option of multi trains home, we were on the 19.40 and they're were only about 15 people/ 10 blues in our carriage

I see it that way too mate, but Dribble seems to be under the impression a major firm was in the carriage abusing anything that wasn't white.

 

[mancityvstoke]

I see it that way too mate, but Dribble seems to be under the impression a major firm was in the carriage abusing anything that wasn't white.

The City nazi service crew

 

[mat]

I was on the 5:20pm train coming back and it wasn't anywhere near full, plus I think there were police on the train and they certainly hauled a few lads off to one side at Piccadilly and were having words with them. It was a dry train, I didn't see or hear any rowdiness on the train and I can't imagine the 6pm train would have been much different. If lads were going on the piss, they'd have been travelling later I imagine.

That doesn't mean that something didn't happen on that train but I suspect that if it was something really serious we'd have heard about it from other sources. What I don't understand is why they went to the MEN when the police were supposedly investigating it. Maybe the parents or kid were being a bit lippy and provoked it, maybe they exaggerated the scale of the incident or maybe the police told them the incident didn't warrant any further action or there wasn't enough evidence to pursue it. No one but the people who witnessed it really knows.

Having said that, if there was an incident then I hope the people responsible get caught and punished.

This.

Three sides to every story.

As a train guard I have to be very careful when any allegations are made by passengers on my service. They have to be investigated, CCTV will be downloaded and the police will eventually decide if there's a case worth pursuing. Sadly every club has a minority off idiots that may have seen it as a bit of a laugh and if proven they will be heavily sanctioned and hopefully regretful of their actions.

 

[Dribble]

I would suggest that you are overestimating the alleged situation without any evidence whatsoever, your now saying it was a carriage full of pissed up footy fans all baying for a 14yos blood, maybe a good thing for you to do is step away from the thread until some fact come out, and mate your coming across as if your scared of you own shadow.

At no point have I said anything categorically happened one way or the other and the issue I have is you and others pouring doubt on what may or may not have happened because on wasn't on Youtube. All I've done is offered a realistic scenarios to show something may of happened but people were sensible enough not to pull out a recording device in front of a group of pissed up, aggressive football fans and I fail to understand how you can fail to appreciate that.

In terms of being afraid of my own shadow, perhaps always being on my toes is why I'm still in one piece and relatively unscathed after all these years and I make no apologies for that Mr Tough Guy. :-)

 

[Utter bobbins]

At no point have I said anything categorically happened one way or the other and the issue I have is you and others pouring doubt on what may or may not have happened because on wasn't on Youtube. All I've done is offered a realistic scenarios to show something may of happened but people were sensible enough not to pull out a recording device in front of a group of pissed up, aggressive football fans and I fail to understand how you can fail to appreciate that.

In terms of being afraid of my own shadow, perhaps always being on my toes is why I'm still in one piece and relatively unscathed after all these years and I make no apologies for that Mr Tough Guy. :-)

I think you are making the same mistake as the ones you are alledging making a mistake