Teenage Intifada

Maybe I'm a comparable young un to some of the other posters here. But surely this can all be solved by some dance music and heavy metal

 
urmston said:
Let's not forget that the Soviet Union occupied the whole of eastern Europe by force for 45 years after WW2, yet all the 'liberal' and 'progressive' types who now claim to be utterly outraged by Israel's occupation of some tiny slivers of land were completely unconcerned.

In fact, some of them thoroughly approved and were quite keen to tell us of the advantages of the Soviet way of doing things.

Again, we come back to the mystery of why lefty types have a particular and obsessive problem with Israel.

They assure us it isn't anti-Semitism, so just what is the cause?
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I am a lefty type as are quite a few others on here who see things from both sides and it's fair to say the right has done more than their fair share of persecuting Jews, so this is not a question of left and right it is a question of extremes of both sides and the centre. The right in America with their blindly pro Israeli stance are just as harmful as the extremes on the left in Europe and their anti Israeli rhetoric which does often border on anti Semitic or become anti Semitic.

It isn't just Israel or even the soviets, the argentines would say it is the UK in the Malvinas, many in Ulster even now would say It's the UK in Ulster, the Indonesians have done it, the Russians are doing it, the Chinese are doing it etc etc etc

i think the reason some on the left blame Israel for all the world's woes is because they blame America for all the world woes. Why because America is the only country with the power to truly solve issues and when it doesn't they get blame. This then irrationally becomes an attitude that says America is worse than Iran or Russia or other countries that are infinitely less liberal free etc it can be annoying as it undermines real progress and really tackling the issues. But I get even more frustrated by the other side, blaming Islam for everything, blaming progressiveness and tolerance for everything, always looking to protect the richest 1%?and caring nothing for the world.

So stick to the issues and the solutions don't try and turn this into a right is right thread and stereotype the left as being to blame that is doing exactly what you would criticise them for doing
 
Paul_Powers_Tash said:
I largely agree and it highlights mans inability to learn from past mistakes. I'm a little embarrassed to state what is in structure very simple and very obvious but pressure should be brought to bear on Israel to stop it's expansion and negotiate a settlement that agrees and officially and publicly recognises national borders and recognises Palestinian sovereignty. In return Palestine should reciprocate and acknowledge and respect the rights of Israel.

Easy to say but in practice this is no easy task and would require real leadership. Instead America has seemed happy to stoke the flames although there may be a slight hope with a minor change in tone from the Obama administration over the last few months.

How much land is the death of one Israeli or Palestinian child worth?
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Sadly at the moment there are people on both sides who think that land is worth a lot of deaths on both sides and they almost welcome the deaths as it builds their power and proves them right! Why else would settlers take their kids into the heart of hostile territory and put their kids in front of the enemy, why else would Hamas put weaponry and "soldiers" in schools. Sadly there are people there who almost rebel in the death of kids.

It's sick on both sides and your point that none of this is worth the death of a kid is spot on.

Pressure needs to be put on everyone there ... Israel of course but with the fact is Netenyahu thrives the more pressure is put on him and there is a big republican tea party lobby in the US who for their own political gain will undermine their own government on this. I have never seen anything as disgraceful as the republicans in congress and what they egged Netenyahu to do and say in congress to totally undermine their own country!
 
Young lads corrupted by elders who don't have the balls to do attacks themselves. Feel sorry for the poor Israelis and even the brainwashed idiots whose lives are over before they have even began.

Still struggle to get my head around the concept of Israel and it's reason for formation. Before WW2 didn't Hitler help Jews move there and let them transfer their assets to help set it all up?
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Sadly at the moment there are people on both sides who think that land is worth a lot of deaths on both sides and they almost welcome the deaths as it builds their power and proves them right! Why else would settlers take their kids into the heart of hostile territory and put their kids in front of the enemy, why else would Hamas put weaponry and "soldiers" in schools. Sadly there are people there who almost rebel in the death of kids.

It's sick on both sides and your point that none of this is worth the death of a kid is spot on.

Pressure needs to be put on everyone there ... Israel of course but with the fact is Netenyahu thrives the more pressure is put on him and there is a big republican tea party lobby in the US who for their own political gain will undermine their own government on this. I have never seen anything as disgraceful as the republicans in congress and what they egged Netenyahu to do and say in congress to totally undermine their own country!
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I agree. I could be miss remembering this but didn't Netenyahu get a 15 minute standing ovation from congress when he visited earlier this year?
 
Scottyboi said:
Young lads corrupted by elders who don't have the balls to do attacks themselves. Feel sorry for the poor Israelis and even the brainwashed idiots whose lives are over before they have even began.

Still struggle to get my head around the concept of Israel and it's reason for formation. Before WW2 didn't Hitler help Jews move there and let them transfer their assets to help set it all up?
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Nope. It was created in 1948. Hitler was long gone and ww2 was over. Hitler would never have funded them. He'd gas chamber them or make them slaves. America and the un founded it as a nation.
 
Scottyboi said:
Young lads corrupted by elders who don't have the balls to do attacks themselves. Feel sorry for the poor Israelis and even the brainwashed idiots whose lives are over before they have even began.

Still struggle to get my head around the concept of Israel and it's reason for formation. Before WW2 didn't Hitler help Jews move there and let them transfer their assets to help set it all up?
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Do you think the Holocaust was the first time Jews were persecuted and murdered for just being Jews? It's been going on for 1000's of years there is your answer
 
Yaya_Tony said:
Nope. It was created in 1948. Hitler was long gone and ww2 was over. Hitler would never have funded them. He'd gas chamber them or make them slaves. America and the un founded it as a nation.
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Don't want to hijack the thread but I'm pretty sure he helped Jews move to British Palestine pre war.
 
Ducado said:
Do you think the Holocaust was the first time Jews were persecuted and murdered for just being Jews? It's been going on for 1000's of years there is your answer
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All because they Killed Jesus!. what fun religion is!.

There was some persecution before that but mostly Pagan related, banned the Sabbath, ritual sacrifice and circumcision, all around the rise of the greek empire at the time.
 
Scottyboi said:
Don't want to hijack the thread but I'm pretty sure he helped Jews move to British Palestine pre war.
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Not sure about that but pre war Jews moved all over the place to escape the nazis. That's why they've got Israel. The shitstorm after wasn't predicted. Hitler definitely did not help the Jews.

As for the reason why they've been so persecuted, I think it all boils back down to Jesus Christ.

A Jew who started a new religion 2000 years ago and it took over the world. It has caused many conflicts which I assume wasn't the intention, but it did. Lots of people have died defending their faith. The persecution as you call it probably goes that far back.
 
grunge said:
All because they Killed Jesus!. what fun religion is!.

There was some persecution before that but mostly Pagan related, banned the Sabbath, ritual sacrifice and circumcision, all around the rise of the greek empire at the time.
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The Romans killed Jesus
 
Scottyboi said:
Don't want to hijack the thread but I'm pretty sure he helped Jews move to British Palestine pre war.
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He certainly didn't help them but initially he wanted them out of Germany. But even if he had helped them, the British government had a quota for Jewish immigration into Palestine so only a relative few could go there. The argument is often made that the partition was disproportionate as the Arabs were in the majority yet got less land. This ignores the fact that Jewish immigration was severely restricted while Arab immigration wasn't subject to any such restriction. Had there been a level playing field, Jews would certainly have outnumbered Arabs.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
He certainly didn't help them but initially he wanted them out of Germany. But even if he had helped them, the British government had a quota for Jewish immigration into Palestine so only a relative few could go there. The argument is often made that the partition was disproportionate as the Arabs were in the majority yet got less land. This ignores the fact that Jewish immigration was severely restricted while Arab immigration wasn't subject to any such restriction. Had there been a level playing field, Jews would certainly have outnumbered Arabs.
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Why did he want them out of Germany ? I find it bizarre, like saying we want people who's name begins with a T out of Britain .
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
He certainly didn't help them but initially he wanted them out of Germany. But even if he had helped them, the British government had a quota for Jewish immigration into Palestine so only a relative few could go there. The argument is often made that the partition was disproportionate as the Arabs were in the majority yet got less land. This ignores the fact that Jewish immigration was severely restricted while Arab immigration wasn't subject to any such restriction. Had there been a level playing field, Jews would certainly have outnumbered Arabs.
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The other point worth mentioning is that whilst the Jews were allocated more of the land, 2/3 of their allocation was an unpopulated desert.
 
west didsblue said:
You might be thinking of this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
Hitler supported it as he saw it as a way of getting rid of Jews from Germany several years before the war and before the "Final solution" decision was made in 1942 to exterminate the Jewish population of Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Solution
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The transfer agreement, a Jewish man from Chicago wrote a book on it where 50,000
Prestwich_Blue said:
He certainly didn't help them but initially he wanted them out of Germany. But even if he had helped them, the British government had a quota for Jewish immigration into Palestine so only a relative few could go there. The argument is often made that the partition was disproportionate as the Arabs were in the majority yet got less land. This ignores the fact that Jewish immigration was severely restricted while Arab immigration wasn't subject to any such restriction. Had there been a level playing field, Jews would certainly have outnumbered Arabs.
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There is a book an American Jew wrote where his father claimed Hitler helped them move to Palestine and sell their assets to surroundings countries which gave them the money to establish businesses in Palestine.
Around 50,000 people apparently we're moved in as it benefitted both parties.
 
Hamann Pineapple said:
Why did he want them out of Germany ? I find it bizarre, like saying we want people who's name begins with a T out of Britain .
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Because he wanted Germany to be free of Jews. All sorts of restrictions on them were introduced early on in order to make life as difficult as possible for them and many who could leave did. But it was still peacetime so he couldn't implement any really violent or genocidal policies for fear of a backlash. Plus the majority of Jews were outside of his control.

It was only after the war started and the Germans found themselves in control of large numbers of Jews in both Eastern and Western Europe that he could really start to implement genocidal policies.

Once the Nazis had invaded Russia, there was really nothing to stop him as he had the vast majority of European Jews in his grasp and little meaningful opposition.
 
Hamann Pineapple said:
Why did he want them out of Germany ? I find it bizarre, like saying we want people who's name begins with a T out of Britain .
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Been reading up on WW2 as it fascinates me, Hitler believed the Jewish owned banks had no reason to stop funding Germany in WW1 and said they had betrayed Germany.

Find it annoying how in high school I wasn't taught how evil Stalin was and how we helped aid him. He was the greater of the 2 evils let 6 million peasants starve to death alone nevernind forcing men to certain death. Evil ****.
 
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